You're either with us, or you're against us
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25-02-2013, 09:58 AM
You're either with us, or you're against us




This is an old adage that goes well beyond just terrorism; Bush just provided a good sound bite. It can apply to a great many things. I'm curious, do any of you, be you Atheist or Theist, subscribe to this notion? If so, why? If not, why? To clarify, my meaning is, do you as X (Atheist or Theist) subscribe to the notion that people are either with you, or they're against you?

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt
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25-02-2013, 10:04 AM
RE: You're either with us, or you're against us
A couple of ants, mixing it up on a stick, carried down the river. Ahead, a waterfall. In other words, no.

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25-02-2013, 10:06 AM
RE: You're either with us, or you're against us
Ultimately, no one can be "with" me. I am all I've got. So this kinda makes it impossible for people to be "against" me.

If you mean whether I think anyone who doesn't agree with me, is against me, the answer is, again, "no". Agree about what? My political views? My atheism? My favourite type of music?

And lastly, I strongly object to anything that further divides us, to subscribe to such thinking. In this huge, overpopulated world, we are nonetheless too alone and finding more and more ways of isolating ourselves from those who surround us, isn't helping anyone.

"E se non passa la tristezza con altri occhi la guarderĂ²."
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25-02-2013, 10:24 AM
Re: You're either with us, or you're against us
My enemies enemies are not necessarily my friends... It seems to be in the same neighborhood.

I wouldn't subscribe to that idea and never have.(probably from so many comics/video games causing villains to team up with heros in my childhood)

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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25-02-2013, 10:28 AM (This post was last modified: 25-02-2013 10:31 AM by Vosur.)
RE: You're either with us, or you're against us
No. Our history clearly shows that this form of rhetoric can be potentially very dangerous because it has acted as a shallow justification for the committal of the most atrocious crimes against humanity. It also encourages the creation of a herd mentality and promotes a close-minded attitude towards opposing viewpoints. Suffice to say that I deeply despise this way of thinking.

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25-02-2013, 10:51 AM
RE: You're either with us, or you're against us
If you think Bush has said some crazy things, then watch this for a new low:



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25-02-2013, 12:03 PM
RE: You're either with us, or you're against us
(25-02-2013 09:58 AM)Ghost Wrote:  



This is an old adage that goes well beyond just terrorism; Bush just provided a good sound bite. It can apply to a great many things. I'm curious, do any of you, be you Atheist or Theist, subscribe to this notion? If so, why? If not, why? To clarify, my meaning is, do you as X (Atheist or Theist) subscribe to the notion that people are either with you, or they're against you?

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt
The question as phrased is highly ambiguous so the question I'm going to answer is whether people that directly know me and know my religious position are either with me or against me.

I say no because there are shades of gray. For example, some people may disagree with my being an atheist because they are theists (against me) while also respecting my right to have my own opinion (with me) on the matter. But even that is oversimplified because there are degrees of being "with me" or "against me".

"Religion has caused more misery to all of mankind in every stage of human history than any other single idea." --Madalyn Murray O'Hair
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25-02-2013, 12:18 PM (This post was last modified: 25-02-2013 12:28 PM by kim.)
RE: You're either with us, or you're against us
There is no such thing as with or against if there is understanding. If one has made their mind up prior to understanding then everyone is fucked.

My answer to the question is pretty much everything Vosur stated with a big cherry red NO on top. Drinking Beverage

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
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25-02-2013, 12:26 PM
RE: You're either with us, or you're against us
No, absolutely not. It's an archaic relic of tribal in-group-out-group thinking, one of the things I most despise about religion.


It has no place in a world armed with nuclear weapons.

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25-02-2013, 12:56 PM
RE: You're either with us, or you're against us
(25-02-2013 10:28 AM)Vosur Wrote:  No. Our history clearly shows that this form of rhetoric can be potentially very dangerous because it has acted as a shallow justification for the committal of the most atrocious crimes against humanity. It also encourages the creation of a herd mentality and promotes a close-minded attitude towards opposing viewpoints. Suffice to say that I deeply despise this way of thinking.
Here here! I couldn't have said it better. As an anarchist, an atheist & a peaceful parent I run up against this sort of herd behavior constantly.


That indoctrination and herd behavior is why the state only needs a handful of paid enforcers relative to the total population. It can best be described as horizontal enforcement.

The beginning of wisdom is to call things by their right names. - Chinese Proverb
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