You're given 5 minutes to deconvert a Christian, how would you do it?
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14-07-2014, 12:15 AM
RE: You're given 5 minutes to deconvert a Christian, how would you do it?
Put a gun in his or her mouth and say if you not an atheist when times up I'll blow motherfucking brains out. At 4 mins if he or she didn't convert, the bullet will go to through the skull.

This might seem harsh but converting Christians can take years, so best solution.
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14-07-2014, 12:49 AM
RE: You're given 5 minutes to deconvert a Christian, how would you do it?
(14-07-2014 12:15 AM)Aiur Wrote:  Put a gun in his or her mouth and say if you not an atheist when times up I'll blow motherfucking brains out. At 4 mins if he or she didn't convert, the bullet will go to through the skull.

This might seem harsh but converting Christians can take years, so best solution.

Feckin' Facepalm Jesus fuck. Atheists can be fucking retards too, come one come all, atheism is for everyone Dodgy

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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14-07-2014, 01:20 AM
RE: You're given 5 minutes to deconvert a Christian, how would you do it?
(14-07-2014 12:49 AM)morondog Wrote:  
(14-07-2014 12:15 AM)Aiur Wrote:  Put a gun in his or her mouth and say if you not an atheist when times up I'll blow motherfucking brains out. At 4 mins if he or she didn't convert, the bullet will go to through the skull.

This might seem harsh but converting Christians can take years, so best solution.

Feckin' Facepalm Jesus fuck. Atheists can be fucking retards too, come one come all, atheism is for everyone Dodgy

You don't realise how long it takes, also you have to bin gray to become an atheist.
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16-07-2014, 08:09 AM
RE: You're given 5 minutes to deconvert a Christian, how would you do it?
I was kept awake on a plane ride by a 19 year old (guessing) christian who couldn't let the fact that I was a former christian go (and let me sleep). She wouldn't leave me alone because she wanted to understand my reasons for not being a christian (specifically). After trying to blow the question off three times I told her the following (this is a shortened version, but you get the gist):

Imagine a parent. This parent has a child, and from the earliest age, that parent gives their child a perspective on the world or an instinct to make mistakes. That parent constantly guides the child to make mistakes (or fails to teach it how to not make the mistakes) and to err in ways that makes the child embarrassed, guilty, and ashamed.

The parent encourages the child to come to it to feel better and to see the parent as its only way of feeling better. The parent keeps the child dependent on him for the entirety if its life - with the goal to be that the child worships the parent as being superior to it, and its only source of salvation from its errors and bad nature. The child subscribes to this and for its own lifetime it never becomes independent, but rather depends on and relies on the parent and tells the parent how amazing it is. The child never gets a job, never moves out, never has sex or any of the pride of being a fully complete human being.

From a psychological standpoint, what would we say about this parent? On a scale of 1 to 10, how unhealthy would we think this person to be? (after the person answers 8, or 9 or 10) I said:

If this isn't acceptable for a person, why do we make an exception for god? I just described your doctrines of original sin, dependence on god, worshipping god's superiority to ours, etc. To me, a superior being would clearly be superior to my own parents who taught me how to be strong, independent, self-sufficient and proactive - not dependent on them for anything.

After observing the cognitive dissonance setting in and the stunned silence, I rolled over and went back to sleep.

Don't sell yourself short Judge, you're an incredible slouch.

Martin Luther was the "father" of two movements - The Reformation and Nazism.
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21-07-2014, 09:46 AM
RE: You're given 5 minutes to deconvert a Christian, how would you do it?
(09-07-2014 08:59 AM)TheInquisition Wrote:  I think I would tell them to consider the pyramids. They were constructed around 2550 BC, the flood myth was supposed to occur around 2440-2460 BC. The pyramids stand in obvious defiance of a global flood myth and even a local flood myth.

The Tower of Babel myth was supposed to occur around 2200 BC, the pyramids were around 350 years before this with written Egyptian language on the inside of them.

The pyramids have a WRITTEN history that dates them before these two global biblical events. There is no sign of flood damage on them and the Egyptian language was obviously established before the tower of Babel event.

The existence of the pyramids disprove two major global events of the bible and even cast doubt on the myth of Moses as they were clearly constructed by paid citizens of Egypt and not Hebrew slaves. (I believe this a standard erroneous myth believed by most people)

Of course I could say this in 5 minutes or less, but the apologist tap dancing, arguing and denial that would ensue would go on indefinitely.
I think this would inspire enough doubt that perhaps a person would look into it and discover the details of the evidence for themselves, I haven't seen a lot of apologist BS to refute this particular biblical debunking, so a believer might have to venture out of the apologist sheep pen to find the truth.
All you need is that nagging question that won't go away.....

I thought this would be a useful exercise in "What would you say?" if given the opportunity.

That's going to be a tough one if the Christian isn't a YEC.

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21-07-2014, 11:43 AM
RE: You're given 5 minutes to deconvert a Christian, how would you do it?
(11-07-2014 10:45 AM)theophilus Wrote:  
(09-07-2014 08:59 AM)TheInquisition Wrote:  I think I would tell them to consider the pyramids. They were constructed around 2550 BC, the flood myth was supposed to occur around 2440-2460 BC. The pyramids stand in obvious defiance of a global flood myth and even a local flood myth.

The Tower of Babel myth was supposed to occur around 2200 BC, the pyramids were around 350 years before this with written Egyptian language on the inside of them.

The pyramids have a WRITTEN history that dates them before these two global biblical events. There is no sign of flood damage on them and the Egyptian language was obviously established before the tower of Babel event.

Are you sure you know the dates of the flood and the tower of Babel?

http://clydeherrin.wordpress.com/2014/06/25/4004-bc/

Quote:The existence of the pyramids disprove two major global events of the bible and even cast doubt on the myth of Moses as they were clearly constructed by paid citizens of Egypt and not Hebrew slaves. (I believe this a standard erroneous myth believed by most people)

The Bible doesn't say anything about who built the pyramids but it certainly wasn't Hebrew slaves.

Now there arose a new king over Egypt, who did not know Joseph. And he said to his people, “Behold, the people of Israel are too many and too mighty for us. Come, let us deal shrewdly with them, lest they multiply, and, if war breaks out, they join our enemies and fight against us and escape from the land.” Therefore they set taskmasters over them to afflict them with heavy burdens. They built for Pharaoh store cities, Pithom and Raamses.
(Exodus 1:8-11 ESV)

There is nothing about the pyramids that contradicts the Bible.

The global flood story requires that only eight people were left alive in 2349 BCE. This does not allow enough time for humans to repopulate the earth. In 2000 BCE only 350 years after the flood the population of the world was 27 million. To go from a population of eight to a population of 27 million in 350 years would require a population growth rate of 136.07%. That is 133% more than the fastest growing portions of the world today.

The Bible also places the date of construction on the Tower of Babel roughly 100 years after the great flood. Saying a population could go from 6 people (Noah and his wife don't count, they didn't have any more children) to enough people to build the Tower of Babel as it is described in the Bible is absurd. This tower was so great that it threatened God, so it must have been greater that the pyramid of Khufu which took 30,000 people to build. Even a growth rate of 500%, which is absurd beyond all imagination, would only produce about half the required people to even begin to think about such a construction project.

Things that make you go hmmmm

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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21-07-2014, 01:33 PM (This post was last modified: 21-07-2014 01:59 PM by TheInquisition.)
RE: You're given 5 minutes to deconvert a Christian, how would you do it?
(21-07-2014 09:46 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(09-07-2014 08:59 AM)TheInquisition Wrote:  I think I would tell them to consider the pyramids. They were constructed around 2550 BC, the flood myth was supposed to occur around 2440-2460 BC. The pyramids stand in obvious defiance of a global flood myth and even a local flood myth.

The Tower of Babel myth was supposed to occur around 2200 BC, the pyramids were around 350 years before this with written Egyptian language on the inside of them.

The pyramids have a WRITTEN history that dates them before these two global biblical events. There is no sign of flood damage on them and the Egyptian language was obviously established before the tower of Babel event.

The existence of the pyramids disprove two major global events of the bible and even cast doubt on the myth of Moses as they were clearly constructed by paid citizens of Egypt and not Hebrew slaves. (I believe this a standard erroneous myth believed by most people)

Of course I could say this in 5 minutes or less, but the apologist tap dancing, arguing and denial that would ensue would go on indefinitely.
I think this would inspire enough doubt that perhaps a person would look into it and discover the details of the evidence for themselves, I haven't seen a lot of apologist BS to refute this particular biblical debunking, so a believer might have to venture out of the apologist sheep pen to find the truth.
All you need is that nagging question that won't go away.....

I thought this would be a useful exercise in "What would you say?" if given the opportunity.

That's going to be a tough one if the Christian isn't a YEC.

Huh? YEC has nothing to do with the flood myth or the Tower of Babel myth.

The pyramids were built a little over 200 years before the flood date of 2338, they were not washed away by the flood! That is my point, they don't even have flood damage on them. This is a way of illustrating in the most obvious fashion how a pre-flood myth structure survived and wasn't affected in ANY way by the supposed flood.
The pyramids cast doubt on the tower of Babel myth as well, again, the pyramids were built over 350 years before the supposed Tower of Babel myth occurred, yet they were there, with Egyptian hieroglyphs on them hundreds of years before the Tower of Babel myth, proving that the Egyptian language was well established long before the Tower of Babel myth. There are also written records from the Sumerian and Persian empires as well demonstrating that these empires existed before and after the flood and Babel myth. They continued their existence without noticing the worldwide flood event (not even a local flood event) as well as having distinct languages well before the Tower of Babel myth.

As an aside, the written record of Egypt shows Thutmose III as ruling during the time of the Exodus, which this site (http://amazingdiscoveries.org/S-deceptio...ypt_Moses) says was in 1450 and Thutmose died during pursuit of the Hebrew slaves in 1450. However, the date given for the reign at non-apologist sites of Thutmose was 1479-1425 BC, so it casts doubt on the tall-tales of the Hebrew's mythology of Moses.

So the existence of the pyramids falsifies the flood myth and the Tower of Babel myth, the written records of Egypt mention nothing unusual happening in the empire at the time of the Exodus.

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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21-07-2014, 01:55 PM
RE: You're given 5 minutes to deconvert a Christian, how would you do it?
(21-07-2014 01:33 PM)TheInquisition Wrote:  
(21-07-2014 09:46 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  That's going to be a tough one if the Christian isn't a YEC.

Huh? YEC has nothing to do with the flood myth or the Tower of Babel myth.

The pyramids were built a little over 200 years before the flood date of 2338, they were not washed away by the flood! That is my point, they don't even have flood damage on them. This is a way of illustrating in the most obvious fashion how a pre-flood myth structure survived and wasn't affected in ANY way by the supposed flood.
the pyramids cast doubt on the tower of Babel myth as well, again, the pyramids were built over 350 years before the supposed Tower of Babel myth occurred, yet they were there, with Egyptian hieroglyphs on them hundreds of years before the Tower of Babel myth, proving that the Egyptian language was well established long before the Tower of Babel myth. There are also written records from the Sumerian and Persian empires as well demonstrating that these empires existed before and after the flood and Babel myth. They continued their existence without noticing the worldwide flood event (not even a local flood event) as well as having distinct languages well before the Tower of Babel myth.

Yeah, sorry. I misspoke. I got my replies garbled from different threads.

I meant to say it's going to be tough for non-literalist such as myself.

This argument only applies to those that take these stories literally.

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21-07-2014, 01:57 PM
RE: You're given 5 minutes to deconvert a Christian, how would you do it?
(21-07-2014 01:33 PM)TheInquisition Wrote:  
(21-07-2014 09:46 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  That's going to be a tough one if the Christian isn't a YEC.

Huh? YEC has nothing to do with the flood myth or the Tower of Babel myth.

The pyramids were built a little over 200 years before the flood date of 2338, they were not washed away by the flood! That is my point, they don't even have flood damage on them. This is a way of illustrating in the most obvious fashion how a pre-flood myth structure survived and wasn't affected in ANY way by the supposed flood.
the pyramids cast doubt on the tower of Babel myth as well, again, the pyramids were built over 350 years before the supposed Tower of Babel myth occurred, yet they were there, with Egyptian hieroglyphs on them hundreds of years before the Tower of Babel myth, proving that the Egyptian language was well established long before the Tower of Babel myth. There are also written records from the Sumerian and Persian empires as well demonstrating that these empires existed before and after the flood and Babel myth. They continued their existence without noticing the worldwide flood event (not even a local flood event) as well as having distinct languages well before the Tower of Babel myth.

All of this is relevant only if you attach precise dates to the flood and the Tower of Babel, and only YECs do that. I think that was KC's point. Other more reasonable Christians are willing to admit that Genesis chronology is sketchy, or even that much of the book is symbolic/mythical rather than literal. I was a practicing Catholic for several years, and never at any time believed that the events of Genesis chapters 1-11 actually happened as described.
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21-07-2014, 02:11 PM
RE: You're given 5 minutes to deconvert a Christian, how would you do it?
I agree, not taking the bible literally is a much more reasonable position, however, if you dismiss the creation myth as a parable, then you undermine the entire purpose of Jesus.
Romans 5:12 -5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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