"You're going to hell!"
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11-09-2011, 06:12 PM
RE: "You're going to hell!"
(09-09-2011 11:04 AM)theophilus Wrote:  All the rules he gives are perfect but some are given only certain people or are only in effect for a certain time. The link in my post explains this in more detail.

I will accept that some rules are only good for a certain period of time, or for certain people. Thou shalt limit thy water usage is a pretty good law in a drought, but it's bad when water is plenty.

So, fine. Some laws change not because Yahweh was wrong, but because the laws were only in place for so long. So, please explain to me what the circumstances were such that made laws allowing slavery the best choice. Or that allowed the forced marriage of raped women. Or the stoning of raped women. And why did Yahweh let things get so bad that these laws were the best option?

Also... "The first of the firstfruits of thy land thou shalt bring into the house of the LORD thy God. Thou shalt not seethe a kid in his mother's milk." (Exodus 23:19) Were the Isrealites seriously boiling baby goats in their own mothers milk often enough for this to be a problem? Also... why was it a problem? I mean, sure, I'm all against animal cruelty, but Yahweh was a-ok with all other kinds of ritual animal killing...
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11-09-2011, 07:46 PM
RE: "You're going to hell!"
Wow, this thread has taken off! Tongue

Anyway, I find the notion of hell to be completely silly. In order to believe in an afterlife, one has to believe in an immaterial "self" that continues to exist beyond physical death. Since there is yet no evidence of an immaterial self, the notion of an afterlife existing has to go on the back burner for now.

But, for hypothetical's sake, let's just say that both an immaterial self and an afterlife exist. Let's stretch this hypothesis and say that hell is a part of this afterlife. Now, the only thing we know about hell from scripture is that there is fire and gnashing of teeth. (If I've missed anything, could somebody please correct me?)

Now, so far we have an immaterial self, fire, and gnashing teeth. Anybody who knows anything about the nervous system will know that we can only experience physical pain through our sensory neurons, which send a signal to our motor neurons (reflex to protect our body) and to our brain (to let us know that we're in pain). Since one needs to have a physical body to experience physical pain (and our physical bodies will be busy decomposing in our graves if they haven't been cremated), the fire and teeth that are supposed to be our punishment in hell aren't going to have any effect on our immaterial selves.

This is why I can confidently say that even if I am wrong and even if the Christian god exists and is going to send me to hell for not believing, I can laugh it off. How is fire going to hurt me when I have no neurons with which to feel it? The only possible "punishment" that hell provides is separation from the being who created hell in the first place, which is a-okay with me. In fact, I'd rather not spend eternity with the being described in the Bible; Satan seems a much more interesting companion Wink

"Remember, my friend, that knowledge is stronger than memory, and we should not trust the weaker." - Dr. Van Helsing, Dracula
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12-09-2011, 02:18 AM
RE: "You're going to hell!"
(11-09-2011 07:46 PM)SecularStudent Wrote:  Wow, this thread has taken off! Tongue

Anyway, I find the notion of hell to be completely silly. In order to believe in an afterlife, one has to believe in an immaterial "self" that continues to exist beyond physical death. Since there is yet no evidence of an immaterial self, the notion of an afterlife existing has to go on the back burner for now.

But, for hypothetical's sake, let's just say that both an immaterial self and an afterlife exist. Let's stretch this hypothesis and say that hell is a part of this afterlife. Now, the only thing we know about hell from scripture is that there is fire and gnashing of teeth. (If I've missed anything, could somebody please correct me?)

Now, so far we have an immaterial self, fire, and gnashing teeth. Anybody who knows anything about the nervous system will know that we can only experience physical pain through our sensory neurons, which send a signal to our motor neurons (reflex to protect our body) and to our brain (to let us know that we're in pain). Since one needs to have a physical body to experience physical pain (and our physical bodies will be busy decomposing in our graves if they haven't been cremated), the fire and teeth that are supposed to be our punishment in hell aren't going to have any effect on our immaterial selves.

This is why I can confidently say that even if I am wrong and even if the Christian god exists and is going to send me to hell for not believing, I can laugh it off. How is fire going to hurt me when I have no neurons with which to feel it? The only possible "punishment" that hell provides is separation from the being who created hell in the first place, which is a-okay with me. In fact, I'd rather not spend eternity with the being described in the Bible; Satan seems a much more interesting companion Wink

Hi secular student, just for a laugh....you're not the first to ever wonder about how someone could burn in hell forever. No less an authority than Saint Augustine, the king of theologians, attempted to explain how people could survive fire in hell without being consumed, and wrote two chapters in "City of God," on the topic, the first entitled
"Whether it is Possible for Bodies to last Forever in Burning Fire," and the second (as if the first wasn’t enough)
"Examples from Nature Proving That Bodies May Remain Unconsumed and Alive in Fire". I’m not going to waste space by describing his arguments.

I must admit I haven't read these chapters, perhaps Theo or HBAF has, and they could explain it to us!
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12-09-2011, 09:44 PM
RE: "You're going to hell!"
It's one thing to labor over excusing Yahwehs murder of children (Or whatever else he feels like murdering today). It's another when I hear them try to explain things where a perfectly legitimate answer is "Magic".

Seriously. How can a body burn forever? Magic. You get a new body when you go to hell, except this one has infinite fuel. Or it's self-repairing. It's not like hell is even remotely natural. If you have infinite power and you want someone to burn forever, you don't even have to have a logical mechanism. It just happens.

Because Yahweh is a dick.
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