"You're going to hell!"
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15-08-2011, 03:02 AM
 
RE: "You're going to hell!"
(15-08-2011 01:52 AM)Mr Woof Wrote:  Perhaps we need some form of compromise when it comes to those infernal eternal questions. Angel
What is Eternity but the absence of Time, which has physical characteristics, like being affected by gravity. Time is interwoven within the creation itself. The bible states that God exists outside the creation, thus is eternal being outside of time.

The biblical understanding concerning the properties of time have only recently been validated through science. Hey does anybody know what time it really is? Does anyone really care...

"In the beginning (time) God created the heavens (space) and the earth (matter)...and said let there be light (energy)". In the beginning implies that time is not eternal, which the bible stated thousands of years ago, a claim science has finally caught up too.
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15-08-2011, 03:28 AM
RE: "You're going to hell!"
(15-08-2011 03:02 AM)Hunted By A Freak Wrote:  What is Eternity but the absence of Time, which has physical characteristics, like being affected by gravity. Time is interwoven within the creation itself. The bible states that God exists outside the creation, thus is eternal being outside of time.

Other religious books have similar claims. Why would your book be any better?

The Bible doesn't make scientific statements in genesis, but tries to explain the origin of the world. Sadly enough, it was the viewpoint of bronze age tribesmen. It's not based on any fact. And if vague comments that can be interpreted in various ways are to be considered compatible with science, you can prove and disprove anything, but you're aren't doing any actual science.

Consider this: God exists outside time, has nothing to do and one day decides to create a world. billions of stars and planets, but only one that's suited for living conditions. Then he creates mankind, gives them contradictory rules and punishes them for not abiding by them. Masturbation? Eternity in hell! (Gen 38). Yes that's a very logical explanation. Science can't live up to this vast knowledge. Dodgy


Quote:The biblical understanding concerning the properties of time have only recently been validated through science. Hey does anybody know what time it really is? Does anyone really care...

Cite sources or it didn't happen.


Quote:"In the beginning (time) God created the heavens (space) and the earth (matter)...and said let there be light (energy)". In the beginning implies that time is not eternal, which the bible stated thousands of years ago, a claim science has finally caught up too.


You're filling quotes up with whatever you want to believe. Ok, so this quote is backed up by science?

Consider this then: (Gen 1)
day 2: God creates light
day 4: God creates light sources...

Yes, very scientific indeed. Dodgy

"Infinitus est numerus stultorum." (The number of fools is infinite)
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15-08-2011, 03:43 AM
RE: "You're going to hell!"
Personally I would have said "I'll save you a nice spot in hell" just to see the look of shock in their faces.

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15-08-2011, 08:25 AM
RE: "You're going to hell!"
(14-08-2011 10:00 AM)Starcrash Wrote:  But it seems so mean-spirited to tell somebody that they're going to Hell.
But if you believed someone was going to Hell wouldn't it be mean-spirited not to warn him?

The information in ancient libraries came from real minds of real people. The far more complex information in cells came from the far more intelligent mind of God.
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15-08-2011, 09:06 AM
RE: "You're going to hell!"
Romans 1:20

Quote:For since the creation of the world his invisible attributes – his eternal power and divine nature – have been clearly seen, because they are understood through what has been made. So people are without excuse.

Translates as: when you look around, you should know God did it. The correct God of course! Not Thor, Odin, Zeus, Allah, no no no!!! It's the Judeo-Christian one, that should be obvious when looking at a fox devouring a cute fluffy bunny.


Matthew 7:7

Quote:“Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened for you."

Ok, God, just prove you exist and we will worship you and avoid hell. We ask you, you should give us an answer according to your infallible manual. We're waiting...


John 3:16

Quote:For this is the way God loved the world: He gave his one and only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life. The one who believes in the Son has eternal life. The one who rejects the Son will not see life, but God’s wrath remains on him.

Ok, Jesus, we can be friends. I know you've been dead for about 2000 years or so, but I don't wanna be picky and I'll play safe. So, do I add you on Facebook or something? That enough?

Just a question; do I still need to obey those freaky old testament rules? Because you apparently said so (John 10:35, Matthew 15:6). So, how do I handle this one? Just to stay on your good side:

Unclean women (Leviticus 15:19-20).
We only have one toilet and my GF has her period, she's unclean and everything she touches apparently becomes unclean too. So, if I've gotta go, do I have to clean and disinfect the entire toilet every time she takes a dump? Or do I need to install a completely new toilet? I don't want to anger you, Lord.

"Infinitus est numerus stultorum." (The number of fools is infinite)
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15-08-2011, 09:41 AM
RE: "You're going to hell!"
(15-08-2011 03:02 AM)Hunted By A Freak Wrote:  
(15-08-2011 01:52 AM)Mr Woof Wrote:  Perhaps we need some form of compromise when it comes to those infernal eternal questions. Angel
What is Eternity but the absence of Time, which has physical characteristics, like being affected by gravity. Time is interwoven within the creation itself. The bible states that God exists outside the creation, thus is eternal being outside of time.

The biblical understanding concerning the properties of time have only recently been validated through science. Hey does anybody know what time it really is? Does anyone really care...

"In the beginning (time) God created the heavens (space) and the earth (matter)...and said let there be light (energy)". In the beginning implies that time is not eternal, which the bible stated thousands of years ago, a claim science has finally caught up too.

I hit like on this post by accident...dangit.

Time is relative. Time exists because of the relative motion of matter. Therefore time did not exist until matter existed. We know what time is and that it is not constant but we have NEVER been able to demonstrate that there exists anything outside of the natural universe.

Consider this (as a fun fact). The width of the universe is roughly the equivalent distance that light has traveled since the Big Bang. That means that the Universe is >10 billion light years across. 1 light year = 10^16 meters or roughly 6 TRILLION MILES! We are merely small fish in a tiny corner of a very large ocean.

“Science is simply common sense at its best, that is, rigidly accurate in observation, and merciless to fallacy in logic.”
—Thomas Henry Huxley
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15-08-2011, 10:10 PM
 
RE: "You're going to hell!"
(15-08-2011 03:28 AM)Thammuz Wrote:  Other religious books have similar claims. Why would your book be any better?
Because it's specific in it's claims concerning time.

"But we impart a secret and hidden wisdom of God, which God decreed before the ages for our glory"

"who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began"

"in hope of eternal life, which God, who never lies, promised before the ages began"

"to the only God our Savior, through Jesus Christ our Lord, be glory, majesty, dominion and authority, before all time and now and forever. Amen."

"In the beginning..."

So what similar books are you speaking of???
And what do they claim concerning the nature of time???

Quote:The Bible doesn't make scientific statements in genesis, but tries to explain the origin of the world.
Hey my science teacher tried to do the same exact thing, everyday! That's bogus.

Quote:Sadly enough, it was the viewpoint of bronze age tribesmen. It's not based on any fact. And if vague comments that can be interpreted in various ways are to be considered compatible with science, you can prove and disprove anything, but you're aren't doing any actual science.
These bronze age tribesman were one of the first, if not the first to describe the earth's complete water cycle.

"For He draws up the drops of water, They distill rain from the mist, Which the clouds pour down, They drip upon man abundantly."

"All the rivers flow into the sea, Yet the sea is not full. To the place where the rivers flow, There they flow again"

"For as the rain and the snow come down from heaven, And do not return there without watering the earth And making it bear and sprout, And furnishing seed to the sower and bread to the eater"

The bible also mentions that the earth is not supported on the back of a teenage mutant ninja turtle, but hangs on nothing.

"He stretches out the north over empty space And hangs the earth on nothing"

Quote:Consider this: God exists outside time, has nothing to do and one day decides to create a world. billions of stars and planets, but only one that's suited for living conditions. Then he creates mankind, gives them contradictory rules and punishes them for not abiding by them. Masturbation? Eternity in hell! (Gen 38). Yes that's a very logical explanation. Science can't live up to this vast knowledge. Dodgy
Oh snap! If I masturbate I'll spend an eternity in hell. Damn then I guess it's game over man, game over! Oh wait a minute the bible doesn't actually state this anywhere in scripture. Whew your freaking me out with this masturbation going to hell stuff.

Genesis 38 is not speaking of masturbation, it's speaking of Onan's responsibility to his tribe and his immediate family. By spilling his seed on the floor he was denying his sister-in-law the ability to provide for herself later in life when she could no longer do for herself.

Why do you think one of the commandments states that you shall honor your mother and father. In other words, take care of them when they can no longer take care of themselves. It was a wicked thing that Onan did and he dishonored his brother.

"Then Judah said to Onan, "Go in to your brother's wife, and perform your duty as a brother-in-law to her, and raise up offspring for your brother."

Quote:
Quote:The biblical understanding concerning the properties of time have only recently been validated through science. Hey does anybody know what time it really is? Does anyone really care...

Cite sources or it didn't happen.
The bible actually states that time had a beginning, so I'll source scripture alone, well I already posted those at the beginning of this post. Wink

But the bible also alludes to the nature of time in other ways. The death of believers is described as them falling asleep, and those who are asleep in Christ shall rise first at the trump. Thus entering into His presence at the same exact time, even though they died hundred of years apart. Yet scripture also states that to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord, as if no time has passed at all. How is this possible? Time is merely part of the creation, being restricted the the universe as we know it, to enter into the Kingdom is to enter into eternity were time doesn't exist.

Quote: You're filling quotes up with whatever you want to believe. Ok, so this quote is backed up by science?

Consider this then: (Gen 1)
day 2: God creates light
day 4: God creates light sources...
day 1: Then God said, "Let there be light"; and there was light. God called the light day, and the darkness He called night. And there was evening and there was morning, one day.
(15-08-2011 09:41 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  I hit like on this post by accident...dangit.
Dude just ding me twice to make up the difference. Cool

Quote:Time is relative. Time exists because of the relative motion of matter. Therefore time did not exist until matter existed. We know what time is and that it is not constant but we have NEVER been able to demonstrate that there exists anything outside of the natural universe.
The bible states that time had a beginning, as does Stephen Hawking, weird how that one worked out. Okay then brother ding away... Tongue
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16-08-2011, 12:56 AM (This post was last modified: 16-08-2011 03:26 AM by Thammuz.)
RE: "You're going to hell!"
This goes against my resolution to stop debating creationist fundamentalists. I'm sorry, couldn't help it

(15-08-2011 10:10 PM)Hunted By A Freak Wrote:  Because it's specific in it's claims concerning time.
So what similar books are you speaking of???
And what do they claim concerning the nature of time???

Specific? Because of a few quotes from a (often mis-)translated book? Just because a book talks about the beginning of the world, doesn't mean it's right in any way. If that's proof for you that the bible is right, then stop talking to me alltogether.

Similar books? The Qur'an for starters. Lots of similarities, enough differences.
The Chinese philosophy (before judeo-christian influence) talks about Shi, which also describes concepts of time. But that's beside the point. I'm not going to read an entire library to support my claim, as your quotes aren't proof for your god in any way (Non sequitur).


Quote:Hey my science teacher tried to do the same exact thing, everyday! That's bogus.

Yes, because science teachers tend to know nothing about science. Priests on the other hand...

Quote:These bronze age tribesman were one of the first, if not the first to describe the earth's complete water cycle

AND they provided a cure for leprosy (Leviticus 14:49-53). Yes, scientific indeed.



About the rest; I don't feel like talking to you anymore. It's not worth the effort. You just KNOW you are right, no? Regardless of evidence to the contrary. Your quotes are empty, your logic is fallacious and you're just trying to mislead others.


EDIT: unnecessary quotes and typos

"Infinitus est numerus stultorum." (The number of fools is infinite)
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16-08-2011, 11:16 AM
RE: "You're going to hell!"
The bad news is, only believers can go to Heaven.

The good news is: only believers can go to Hell.

The best news is: anybody can go to San Francisco.

If you pray to anything, you're prey to anything.
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16-08-2011, 12:32 PM
RE: "You're going to hell!"
The fact that the bible indicates a beginning and science indicates a beginning does not prove the bible nor scientific theory. The bible simply says there was a beginning and justifies it as God but offers no explanation for God's existence other than he has always existed, a couple of points to make from this. 1) If this is a true statement then it should be demonstrable. If it is a hypothesis it should be testable. It is in fact neither. If it were fact there would evidence to prove it. In order for something to be a testable hypothesis it should be testable and falsifiable, and once again the existence of God before the beginning of time is neither. 2) This claim suggests that since God has always existed (as we have both agreed there was some point in time and space where the beginning of all matter and time originated) then there is one of 2 possibilities. First God existed before time, matter, and energy and since we have already agreed that there was a beginning then we must also agree that before the beginning there was nothing, so nothing existed before the beginning. The second possibility would be that God and space, time, matter, energy and everything else were created in the same instance at the beginning of time. This however contradicts the concept put forth by the bible that God created it all and instead implies that god would have been created alongside it.

Synopsis. Before the beginning of time = nothing
God says he existed before the beginning
No evidence to suggest this and no way to test it and if the claim is made that god is a supernatural being then it is not even a hypothesis because it is not falsifiable because we have no evidence to suggest the existence of supernature or the supernatural.

Show me evidence of supernature, show me evidence of the supernatural and then we can evaluate the claims about the existence of god within it. This evidence should be repeatable, testable, falsifiable and independently reproducible. Ergo the bible is not evidence in any sense.

“Science is simply common sense at its best, that is, rigidly accurate in observation, and merciless to fallacy in logic.”
—Thomas Henry Huxley
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