"You're going to hell!"
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23-08-2011, 01:54 AM
RE: "You're going to hell!"
(22-08-2011 02:19 AM)Joe Bloe Wrote:  
(22-08-2011 01:01 AM)Mr Woof Wrote:  Is it really neccessary to view "god" through the eyes of Judaeo/ Christianity, or any other religion for that matter? The fact that ,historically ,humanity has created a great many myths to find comfort in their despair does not prove that a god of sorts does not exist. Gods, godesses, hells and heavens are locked into man made semantics and seem to cause more harm than good.Cool

Is it really neccessary to view "god" through the eyes of Judaeo/ Christianity
It is for me, it's the only religion I know. Also, the mere fact that other religions exist does not preclude specific references to Christianity.

The fact that, historically, humanity has created a great many myths to find comfort in their despair does not prove that a god of sorts does not exist.
Not quite sure what you mean by that. Are you referring to "The Negative Way" or something else?

Rather than have an unbeliever prove that god does not exist, I think it would be more helpful if the theist proved that god DID exist. (I don't mind waiting.)

I see the real problem here, from a supernatural point of view, is that god has been defined in ridiculous ways to give believers some sense of purpose. If god was defined less demandingly it might be easier to consider the notion.
For example many Buddhists don't believe in god;rather they look at an evolving spirituality. In Christianity of course you can argue that any lesser god would not be god, but thats their problem. Proof of god too, probably upsets Christians because of the faith element attached to that religion.
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23-08-2011, 10:43 PM
RE: "You're going to hell!"
(15-08-2011 01:18 AM)Hunted By A Freak Wrote:  The founders broke away from an institutionalized form of religion, wanting nothing to do with the state run system. The founders were God fearing and constructed a constitution based on His immutable laws.

God Bless America or any other country that allows the freedoms granted in the United States Constitution.

(Apologies for the non-sequitur, but I just saw this early post in the thread and felt inspired to comment.)

As I'm sure you know, the United States Constitution does not once mention the word "God." But your suggestion is nonetheless interesting. I wonder how many of "God's immutable laws" the Founding Fathers had in mind when they wrote the Constitution.

In particular, I wonder to what extent the Bible's attitude towards slavery--namely, that it's a perfectly normal and acceptable part of life for one human being to own another--influenced the God-fearing Founders to write slavery into the Constitution as a legal and acceptable institution in the new nation.

You know, sometimes I think we would have been better off if the Founding Fathers hadn't been so inspired by "God's immutable laws."

Religious disputes are like arguments in a madhouse over which inmate really is Napoleon.
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24-08-2011, 01:13 AM
RE: "You're going to hell!"
(23-08-2011 10:43 PM)cufflink Wrote:  
(15-08-2011 01:18 AM)Hunted By A Freak Wrote:  The founders broke away from an institutionalized form of religion, wanting nothing to do with the state run system. The founders were God fearing and constructed a constitution based on His immutable laws.

God Bless America or any other country that allows the freedoms granted in the United States Constitution.

(Apologies for the non-sequitur, but I just saw this early post in the thread and felt inspired to comment.)

As I'm sure you know, the United States Constitution does not once mention the word "God." But your suggestion is nonetheless interesting. I wonder how many of "God's immutable laws" the Founding Fathers had in mind when they wrote the Constitution.

In particular, I wonder to what extent the Bible's attitude towards slavery--namely, that it's a perfectly normal and acceptable part of life for one human being to own another--influenced the God-fearing Founders to write slavery into the Constitution as a legal and acceptable institution in the new nation.

You know, sometimes I think we would have been better off if the Founding Fathers hadn't been so inspired by "God's immutable laws."

Alot of our countries great men were believers in "a" God, but not in religion. They saw past the curtain that blocked the true view of their belief. I think it's fine for someone to have a god, but not a religion. To be a follower, and a believer are two totally different things in my opinion. BTW slavery was the stupidest thing ever invented.
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24-08-2011, 07:05 AM
RE: "You're going to hell!"
Most of our 'founding fathers' despised Christianity, especially James Madison and Thomas Jefferson. They were not 'god fearing' but desists or in Jefferson's case, agnostic.

It really chaps my ass when people say things like that about the USA. We were built on a social experiment based on the philosophers of the time, certainly not a bible or anything like that.

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26-08-2011, 11:50 PM
 
RE: "You're going to hell!"
(16-08-2011 12:56 AM)Thammuz Wrote:  Specific? Because of a few quotes from a (often mis-)translated book? Just because a book talks about the beginning of the world, doesn't mean it's right in any way. If that's proof for you that the bible is right, then stop talking to me alltogether.
The concept of time found throughout the bible is consistent and accurate, just another testimony to it's veracity. The prevailing thought in the 1950's was the steady state theory, which turned out to be false, yet scripture was proven correct being ahead the curve of science. You can look up old translations of the scriptures and find accurate translations stating time had a beginning, all before science had much of an opinion on the subject. Not proof in itself, but another validation.

As far as I know I haven't provided any proof texts concerning scripture, none that I would claim as absolutes anyway.

Quote:Similar books? The Qur'an for starters. Lots of similarities, enough differences.
Really lots of similarities...Really? Huh
Quote:The Chinese philosophy (before judeo-christian influence) talks about Shi, which also describes concepts of time. But that's beside the point. I'm not going to read an entire library to support my claim, as your quotes aren't proof for your god in any way (Non sequitur).
How did "judeo-christian influence" influence Chinese philosophy anyways???

Quote:
Quote:These bronze age tribesman were one of the first, if not the first to describe the earth's complete water cycle

AND they provided a cure for leprosy (Leviticus 14:49-53). Yes, scientific indeed
You need to go further back to verse 48 were it states "If, on the other hand, the priest comes in and makes an inspection and the mark has not indeed spread in the house after the house has been replastered, then the priest shall pronounce the house clean because the mark has not reappeared." Tell me then, what's the point in cleansing the house once the priest has already pronounced the it clean???

There's actually quite a bit of good medical science found throughout Leviticus, including chapter 14, particularly when it deals with the subject of "quarantine". All this understanding of how to deal with diseases and all 3,000+ years before the CDC. Look at the plagues of Europe and how the Jews faired better than most. All because they obeyed God's word, which instructed them how to use running water to purify diseases and to how take their waste outside their camp.

There's also something very significant found in Leviticus 14, something prophetic, something beautiful.

The procedures found in the book of Leviticus were to be performed by the priest only when an individual had already been cured of leprosy, also known as the law of the leper. Leprosy at this time and until just recently has been an incurable disease.

It is interesting that there was in fact a procedure given in the law for a disease that had no cure. The priest might have never needed to perform this procedure as it applies to leprosy. It's primary purpose appears to point to the future work of the Messiah.

Leprosy in the bible is used typologically to represent sin. Leprosy deadens the senses and isolates us from others much like sin can in an individuals life

It is in the gospel of Luke were we find Jesus healing the ten lepers. Immediately after healing the lepers Jesus told them to go and show themselves to the priest which is in fulfillment of the law of the leper found in Leviticus and demonstrates that only Jesus can cleanse us of our sins.

This might have been the first and last time that the priest would have ever needed to perform this ritual for leprosy. The law of the leper anticipated the One who would come and cleanse us, as only Jesus Christ can.

The most intriguing part of the “law of the leper” was the actual procedure that would follow after one had been cleansed. It appears that this procedure is one in which the New Testament writers never developed or focused on in their writings, though it points to the cross and the gospel message.

The following excerpt is taken from Leviticus 14: 2-7:

"This shall be the law of the leper in the day of his cleansing. Now he shall be brought to the priest, and the priest shall go out to the outside of the camp. Thus the priest shall look, and if the infection of leprosy has been healed in the leper, then the priest shall give orders to take two live clean birds and cedar wood and a scarlet string and hyssop for the one who is to be cleansed.

"The priest shall also give orders to slay the one bird in an earthenware vessel over running water. As for the live bird, he shall take it together with the cedar wood and the scarlet string and the hyssop, and shall dip them and the live bird in the blood of the bird that was slain over the running water. He shall then sprinkle seven times the one who is to be cleansed from the leprosy and shall pronounce him clean, and shall let the live bird go free over the open field.


In the above passages what we end up discovering is the predictive quality of the bible concerning the future death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ, which cleanse us from all sin (leprosy).

The following verse is of particular interest, “Thus the priest shall look, and if the infection of leprosy has been healed in the leper, then the priest shall give orders to take two live clean birds and cedar wood and a scarlet string and hyssop for the one who is to be cleansed.

The clean birds represent the sinless life of Christ, the wood points us to the cross, the scarlet thread reminds of His blood and the hyssop is what was used by the Israelites to mark their door posts with the blood of the lamb, and also used to offer Jesus wine while He was on the cross.

And of course all of these things were to be taken for the one who was to cleansed of leprosy, just as all of these things were used in the crucifixion to cleanse one of their sins.

Further on in this passage we have the two birds which represent Jesus' death, burial and resurrection. One bird dying (Jesus' death) in an earthen vessel (burial) and one bird flying away with blood on it (Jesus' resurrection).

As it is written in Revelation, “He is clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God." The bible is all about Jesus, as with all things found within the Old Testament. Beautiful...

Quote:About the rest; I don't feel like talking to you anymore. It's not worth the effort. You just KNOW you are right, no? Regardless of evidence to the contrary. Your quotes are empty, your logic is fallacious and you're just trying to mislead others.
No worries bro, take care.
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27-08-2011, 12:56 AM
RE: "You're going to hell!"
(26-08-2011 11:50 PM)Hunted By A Freak Wrote:  The following verse is of particular interest, “Thus the priest shall look, and if the infection of leprosy has been healed in the leper, then the priest shall give orders to take two live clean birds and cedar wood and a scarlet string and hyssop for the one who is to be cleansed.

The clean birds represent the sinless life of Christ, the wood points us to the cross, the scarlet thread reminds of His blood and the hyssop is what was used by the Israelites to mark their door posts with the blood of the lamb, and also used to offer Jesus wine while He was on the cross.

No, that's not correct. The correct interpretation of that passage is as follows:

Leprosy is of course a terrible disease. Now the two clean live birds were certainly doves, and Song of Solomon 1:15 equates doves with eyes: "Your eyes are doves." So far, then, we have "terrible disease" and "eyes"--i.e. blindness.

"Scarlet" is the universal symbol for sexual immorality. And I'm sure I don't have to tell you what "wood" means in a sexual context. As for "hyssop," keep in mind that in OT times, hyssop twigs were used for ceremonial sprinkling. So: sexual immorality; wood; sprinkling. I think it's pretty clear in this context what kind of "sprinkling" we're talking about.

In sum, then, it's apparent the verse is saying you'll go blind if you masturbate.

That, my friend, is the correct interpretation of the passage.

Or maybe it's not.

Or maybe all such attempts at "interpretation" are phony and ridiculous and unworthy of intelligent people.

Religious disputes are like arguments in a madhouse over which inmate really is Napoleon.
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27-08-2011, 02:38 AM
RE: "You're going to hell!"
(26-08-2011 11:50 PM)Hunted By A Freak Wrote:  *Claims of scientific knowledge in the bible*

Genesis 1 Wrote:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

3 And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.

14 And God said, “Let there be lights in the vault of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark sacred times, and days and years, 15 and let them be lights in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth.” And it was so. 16 God made two great lights—the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars. 17 God set them in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth, 18 to govern the day and the night, and to separate light from darkness. And God saw that it was good. 19 And there was evening, and there was morning—the fourth day.

According to the Bible, the Earth was created before the Sun. I rest my case.
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28-08-2011, 02:28 PM
RE: "You're going to hell!"
(15-08-2011 01:18 AM)Hunted By A Freak Wrote:  The founders were God fearing and constructed a constitution based on His immutable laws.

I see this type of comment fairly often and I never cease to be flabbergasted by it. The implication here is that the US Constitution is somehow based on the bible. Here is a link to a pdf for the US Constitution. Please highlight to me which sections are based on "His immutable laws".

Shackle their minds when they're bent on the cross
When ignorance reigns, life is lost
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28-08-2011, 02:44 PM
RE: "You're going to hell!"
"In God we trust" was not printed on money until the 1860's and was not on paper money until the 1950's. "In God we trust" was not the National motto until 1957. The pledge of allegiance was written in the 1890's but the line "indivisible" was replaced by "under God" in the 1950's. The McCarthy scare seems to have ushered in a way for the religious right to shove their views off on everyone else and people now believe that we were founded as a "Christian Nation" and that "In God we trust" and "under God" have always been apart of our country. WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!

“Science is simply common sense at its best, that is, rigidly accurate in observation, and merciless to fallacy in logic.”
—Thomas Henry Huxley
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28-08-2011, 09:55 PM
RE: "You're going to hell!"
Someone asks me...

"Do you believe in god?"

I say, "no".

They ask, "Then you don't believe in hell?"

My response, "no".

They may say, "What if you're wrong?"

I just say, "Then I will burn for a billion-billion years... But at least I'll be honest."

That usually ends it.

Who can turn skies back and begin again?
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