"You're just blind" - Theist (Omegle)

[Vosur]

I know, I'm kinda spamming with this stuff as of late, but I asked the mods to make a new section for these kind of topics, so that they can move these threads in there.

Anyway, this is yet another chatlog with a friendly Christian, ending with him insulting me and disconnecting. Have fun!

You're now chatting with a random stranger. Say hi!

You and the stranger both like Religion.

You: Hello

Stranger: Hey

Stranger: So what do you believe in

You: Nothing. What about you?

Stranger: Im a christian

You: Catholic, Protestant, ... ?

Stranger: Non demoninational

Stranger: But do u believe that there are Gods

Stranger: Or u an atheist

Stranger: Agnoistic?

You: I don't like labels

You: But I'm an agnostic atheist by definition

Stranger: Bro its either you do believe or you dont

You: That's a bit oversimplified, don't you think?

Stranger: Why cant it be?

You: Give me a second

Stranger: K

You: Agnostic atheism , also called atheistic agnosticism , is a philosophical doctrine that encompasses both atheism and agnosticism. An agnostic atheist is atheistic, in that he or she does not believe that any deities exist, but is also agnostic, in that he or she does not claim access to definitive knowledge of this. The agnostic atheist can be contrasted with the agnostic theist, who is theistic, in that he or she does believe that one or more deities exist, but is also agnostic, in that he or she does not claim access to definitive knowledge of this.

Agnostic atheism should not be confused with weak atheism, which makes no reference to knowledge. It is possible for an agnostic atheist to subscribe to either strong or weak atheism, independently of his agnosticism.

Individuals identifying as agnostic atheists may justify their position by reference to epistemology, theory of justification or Occam's razor.

Examples:
Bertrand Russell uses the example of the celestial teapot. He argues that although it is impossible to know that the teapot does not exist, most people would not believe in it.

Stranger: Oh so your believing in a doctrine that someone else wrote because it doesnt sound simple

You: No, that's the point, there is no doctrine for agnostic atheism. What I just gave you is the dictionary definition of the term "agnostic atheism"

Stranger: Dont get caught up i all that crap. Let me ask you something to you worship anything in your life. Because everyone worships at least one thing

You: That's incorrect. I, for one, don't worship anything

You: Nothing supernatural, at the very least

Stranger: Yeah it doesnt have to be supernatural

Stranger: Im talking matilerialistic

You: Well, how does one worship something that is not supernatural?

Stranger: Suppose i masturbate to porn everday

Stranger: I am worshipping porn

You: Not really, to be honest. That's just you masturbating

Stranger: But thats not the point, its consistent

Stranger: I enjoy doing it

You: Worship doesn't have anything to do with doing something consistently, though

Give me a second

Stranger: ..

You: wor·ship
1.
reverent honor and homage paid to God or a sacred personage, or to any object regarded as sacred.
2.
formal or ceremonious rendering of such honor and homage: They attended worship this morning.
3.
adoring reverence or regard: excessive worship of business success.
4.
the object of adoring reverence or regard.
5.
( initial capital letter ) British . a title of honor used in addressing or mentioning certain magistrates and others of high rank or station (usually preceded by Your, His, or Her ).

Stranger: Yes l maybe that was a bad example but It says you can worship objects

You: Indeed. In that case I don't worship anything

Stranger: You dont strive for money?

You: No, I have everything I need. I'm not a fan of luxus

You: As long as I can pay my bills, I'm fine

Stranger: okay look

Stranger: what do you want most in your life

You: That'd be an abstract answer

You: Such as "happiness" or "wisdom"

Stranger: ddont look at it as a tricky question

Stranger: just answer it as if one answer popped in your head

You: Yeah, these are the answers that popped in my head

Stranger: happiness

Stranger: if you dont mind me asking why are you not happy?

You: The world is a horrible place, to be honest

Stranger: yeah it is

You: I'd be insane to claim I'm happy while knowing what's going on

Stranger: let me explain to you where im at with my faith in God and you can read and take it in or you can not, tthats totally fine.

Stranger: I dont like labels either

You: I used to be a Baptist

Stranger: in fact i dont like to be called a christian because many people have their own opinions and hyprocritcal view points on them

Stranger: i do believe this is one God

Stranger: who made this earth and us

Stranger: who knew us before we were even born

Stranger: he designed us to be exactly what we are today

You: How do you know all this?

Stranger: because I read the Bible

You: That leads to the next question. How do you know the Bible is valid?

Stranger: i know it is

Stranger: there are stories in the Bible in which relate to my life

You: The Bible is valid because you know it's valid? That's circular reasoning

Stranger: then how do you know its false?

You: Because it contains contradictions, historical inaccuracies, supernatural phenomena recorded by people who thought that sacrificing goats would heal their diseases

Stranger: historical inaccuracies...

Stranger: the Bible was written before, between, and after Jesus death

Stranger: it predicted that Jesus would be born and die on the cross

You: Just as an example, the Bible claims that the Egypts enslaved an entire race (the Jews) and that their army drowned in the red sea.

You: What you're mentioning is a self-fulfilling prophecy

Stranger: oh so a God that created the very universe that we're in cant drown a few opposers?

You: I'm saying that recent archeological investigations contradict that claim

Stranger: what recent investigations

You: If an entire army had been drowned in the sea, we would have evidence for it, such as their equipment

Stranger: so where is the red sea now?

You: What'd you mean?

Stranger: is the red sea present

You: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Sea

Stranger: oh so they gave up trying to find the equipment of the soliders because a hug mass of waters is blocking their way

You: What are you talking about? Christians claimed that they found parts of the armies equipment, archeologists investigated it and found out it was a hoax

You: The parts were recent, not thousands of years old

Stranger: you're not being specific

Stranger: what are you talking about

Stranger: who were these Christians

Stranger: who are the archeologist

Stranger: theres not enough evidence to prove that point

You: What point?

Stranger: now you lost me..

Stranger: you want solid proof to believe in something

Stranger: but there isnt any solid proof out there

You: But of course, that's just logical

You: Then why do you still belief?

Stranger: because i believe in something

Stranger: why am i here

Stranger: who made me

Stranger: what you simple dont care about how you were here

You: Who says that I don't care about it? Science is able to explain that very well

Stranger: oh great

Stranger: dont get started with science

You: Why?

Stranger: 1 billion years have passed and thats how we are here

You: (also, here's the link for the archeological findings: http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/c/c...heels.htm)

You: Have you heard about the Evolution theory?

Stranger: and yet it takes us 2000 years to get to such a technological age

Stranger: plus your website there says truthorfiction which made me laugh because its saying it could be fake or not

You: It's easy to dismiss a website based on it's name or interface, why don't you actually read it and refute it's content?

Stranger: because everything on the internet is writte by someone and that someone can be wrong

You: That's why you do research on it on multiple websites

You: Do you want more than this source?

Stranger: thats a waste of time

Stranger: the Bible is the only proof i need to fully understand my life

Stranger: serach up dead sea scrolls and believe it you want

You: Which brings us back to the question: Why do you accept the Bible as proof?

You: What about the dead sea scrolls?

Stranger: because it is the oldest proof we have on earth

Stranger: the oldest book

Stranger: written in hebrew

You: That's a logical fallacy, called "appeal to tradition". Just because it's older doesn't mean that it's any more valid. The Bible claims that the earth is flat, yet we know that it's a sphere.

You: Do you believe that the earth is flat?

Stranger: the Bible did not claim any shape of the earth

Stranger: it just calls it earth

You: But of course it did. The Bible talks about the four corners of the earth

Stranger: yeah thats a figure of speech its literally saying they're four corners

You: Actually, it wasn't intended to be that way. Up until a few hundred years ago, it was widely believed that the earth was literally flat

You: Scientists are the ones who pointed out that it was actually around because they observed the coming and going of ships

You: *round

Stranger: researches not scientists

You: Galileo Galilei was a scientists. But anyway, there are other examples, such as: The sun revolves around the earth

Stranger: what?

Stranger: where are u getting these examples

Stranger: you simply listing everything you read on the internet

You: Do you want me to provide you with the verses from the Bible?

You: You can read it up yourself in your Bible

Stranger: which tells me you put your life on soemthing that someone else wrote

You: Revelation 7:1
"After this I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding back the four winds of the earth to prevent any wind from blowing on the land or on the sea or on any tree."

You: Look in your Bible, does it say something else?

Stranger: LOL

You: I'm using your source, which you say is valid

Stranger: you say something that neither of us understand

Stranger: reading does not mean you fully understand

Stranger: simply becuase you do not know the context

You: In what context is scientific inaccuracy supposed to be alright?

Stranger: its scientific

Stranger: really?

Stranger: how do angels relate to sceience

You: That's the point

Stranger: no its not

Stranger: you're a fool

You: The Bible claims that supernatural beings exist and you have no evidence for them other than the Bible

Stranger: all this doubt because you cant put a single heartbeat into faith

You: Faith is believing without evidence. The same way you can justify believing in Allah

Stranger: yet Allah is God

You: ... or the belief in polytheistic religions

You: Such as Hinduism

You: With thousands of different Gods

Stranger: yeap

Stranger: why make it so difficult

You: (also, calling me a fool instead of making a coherent argument is known as the "ad hominem" fallacy)

Stranger: to worship so many Gods when you have one

Stranger: i love these terms

You: It's less difficult not to believe in any God

Stranger: that people make up so it just helps you "understand" more

Stranger: you can argue with an agnoistic atheist whatever and have different view points as well

You: Sure, I don't doubt that

Stranger: and yet you're all in alone in your own world thinking that what you believe is right

You: I don't need to believe it, I have the facts to back it up

You: And what makes you think that you are less lonely if you believe in God?

Stranger: what facts

Stranger: those are not facts

You: It's not a fact that we have no evidence to prove the existence of God?

Stranger: i pity you

You: Is that supposed to be an answer to my question?

You: Also, telling me that you pity me is yet another fallacy, known as "appeal to emotion". It's time for you to start using coherent arguments

Stranger: you're just blind

Stranger: listen to kwve 107.9 fm

Stranger: hopefully you will be saved

Your conversational partner has disconnected.

[Red Celt]

(31-07-2012 02:27 AM)Vosur Wrote:  Stranger: Im a christian

You: Catholic, Protestant, ... ?

Stranger: Non demoninational

I'm trying to imagine a demoninational version of Christianity.

Is that when they worship demons at a national level? Demons that only belong to their own country? Would Justin Beiber qualify for that?

Joking aside... Vosur, that's the second time (in these Omegle chats) that you've said that everyone was flat-Earthers until recently. Sorry, but that simply isn't true. I don't have a good source for you, but there are many references (into pre-history) of an apparent knowledge of a spheroid Earth. You don't need a ship to realise that the horizon is closer than a flat-Earth would allow for.

[Vosur]

(31-07-2012 02:47 AM)Red Celt Wrote:  Joking aside... Vosur, that's the second time (in these Omegle chats) that you've said that everyone was flat-Earthers until recently. Sorry, but that simply isn't true. I don't have a good source for you, but there are many references (into pre-history) of an apparent knowledge of a spheroid Earth. You don't need a ship to realise that the horizon is closer than a flat-Earth would allow for.

I think you may have misread something. What I said was that

Quote:Up until a few hundred years ago, it was widely believed that the earth was literally flat

Widely believed =|= Everyone believed in it

However, you are correct in saying that there are other and earlier methods to find out the shape of the earth.

[Red Celt]

(31-07-2012 02:51 AM)Vosur Wrote:  Widely believed =|= Everyone believed in it

Well, that's the point that I'm trying to make. I've heard/read many times that the notion of a flat Earth has been projected onto our predecessors, rather than that actually being the case.

Even the biblical reference can easily be seen as metaphorical, referring to the four corners of a map, rather than the actual shape. Else, you wouldn't just be thinking of the Earth as flat... you'd be thinking that it was rectangular. Those that could be described as flat-Earthers tended to see the world as circular, under a dome of the heavens. The four-corners is just a metaphor, along with the four-winds of North/South & East/West.

[Vosur]

(31-07-2012 03:01 AM)Red Celt Wrote:  Well, that's the point that I'm trying to make. I've heard/read many times that the notion of a flat Earth has been projected onto our predecessors, rather than that actually being the case.

Sure, it's possible. My current knowledge stems from history classes. I didn't bother to research on it further than that because I'm fairly confident that he has profound knowledge about the topics he teaches us about. I'm willing to change my point of view if you can provide me with sufficient evidence, in the meantime I'm going to research about it as well.

(31-07-2012 03:01 AM)Red Celt Wrote:  Even the biblical reference can easily be seen as metaphorical, referring to the four corners of a map, rather than the actual shape. Else, you wouldn't just be thinking of the Earth as flat... you'd be thinking that it was rectangular. Those that could be described as flat-Earthers tended to see the world as circular, under a dome of the heavens. The four-corners is just a metaphor, along with the four-winds of North/South & East/West.

Don't get me started on claiming that parts of the Bible are metaphors after the discovery has been made.

[Red Celt]

(31-07-2012 03:13 AM)Vosur Wrote:  Don't get me started on claiming that parts of the Bible are metaphors after the discovery has been made.

Oh, I know... it's just that, in this case, I see it as defensible.

[Filox]

OK, now this guy was far more "normal" that the rest of these crazies you pick up. A pretty typical Christian, but he is still not that crazy or fundamental, he is just a believer. Find the more crazy ones, they are more fun.

[fstratzero]

Quote:listen to kwve 107.9 fm

I laughed so hard. I mean just by saying this he/she lacks coherent thinking skills.

[SlipStitch]

(31-07-2012 02:27 AM)Vosur Wrote:  Stranger: which tells me you put your life on soemthing that someone else wrote

*opens mouth*

...

No, that'd just be too easy.

[Rahn127]

When someone comes so closely to quoting BA Baracas from the A-Team "I pity the fool", then you know the time for arguing is over.
It's time to hit him with a tranq gun and load him on the plane.