Your Main Sticking Point..
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28-05-2015, 05:50 AM
RE: Your Main Sticking Point..
(27-05-2015 04:44 PM)TheStraightener Wrote:  There are numerous reasons why people find the god concept to be unbelievable. Many atheists have different reasons for their stance.. I'd like to know what your biggest reason is.

It took me a while to let go of it all, and it wasn't any one thing.

Now, apart from the whole lack-of-evidence thing, I'd say it's that Christianity looks like a religion created by one culture of people. It's no different than any other religion. Up until the Epistles, all of the events described in the Bible happen in an area on the globe the size of a dime. The same for ancient Greek, Egyptian, or Norse mythos. There's no reason to assume that this one religion is somehow the for really real deal when it looks exactly like the others and brings nothing more to the table in terms of positive evidence.

If it evangelizes presupposes walks like a duck...
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28-05-2015, 05:54 AM
RE: Your Main Sticking Point..
(28-05-2015 05:50 AM)RobbyPants Wrote:  walks like a duck...

... Then you know it's quacked.

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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28-05-2015, 06:32 AM
RE: Your Main Sticking Point..
I read the bible and bam! The vague notion I had of, maybe something, just vanished.

And the way whenever we discover anything new, that gap that god has took to residing in, just gets smaller.

"The person who is certain, and who claims divine warrant for his certainty, belongs now to the infancy of our species." - Christopher Hitchens

"Remember kids, if you don't sin, then Jesus died for nothing. Have a great day!" - Ricky Gervais
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28-05-2015, 07:36 AM
RE: Your Main Sticking Point..
(27-05-2015 04:44 PM)TheStraightener Wrote:  There are numerous reasons why people find the god concept to be unbelievable. Many atheists have different reasons for their stance.. I'd like to know what your biggest reason is.

Mine is the vagueness of it all. And how definitions can apply to any mythical being... Its also my biggest bug bear when theists bring it up.

Oh... god is outside of space and time, he is mysterious, we can't know his ways etc. Basically, its saying I DON'T KNOW.. Therefore magic. But it goes a step further than that. They dont realise that the reasons they give can apply to ANY OTHER unprovable , mysterious being.

In Genesis, you can replace the word GOD with OBSIDIAN or JUJU or anything.. And it still reads EXACTLY the same.. We dont know how.. So lets Insert mythical being here.

They dont even give you anything specific to work with.

That's my biggest reason for disbelief... Outside of my obvious grasp of reality of course.

That's easy. The inherent subjectivity of the god belief which is at odds with what we observe about the universe. I think it is an insurmountable problem for the theist. That's probably why they avoid the issue like the plague whenever I bring it up.

Do not lose your knowledge that man's proper estate is an upright posture, an intransigent mind and a step that travels unlimited roads. - Ayn Rand.

Don't sacrifice for me, live for yourself! - Me

The only alternative to Objectivism is some form of Subjectivism. - Dawson Bethrick
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28-05-2015, 08:45 AM
RE: Your Main Sticking Point..
The prophet experience is pretty much incontrovertible at least as far as revealed religion goes. Tongue

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28-05-2015, 10:03 AM
RE: Your Main Sticking Point..
As a kid I was told of the tooth fairy, imps, elves, Father Christmas, dragons, ghosts, God, leprechauns, Rupert Bear, Snow white etc. etc.
I looked on them all the same, just stories. But at least the tooth fairy gave me a thrupn'y bit every now and again and each year I got a present labelled from father Christmas.
I don't remember a time when I thought it was anything other than my parents though.

What do you mean Life is short. It's the longest thing you're going to do.
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28-05-2015, 07:20 PM
RE: Your Main Sticking Point..
My main sticking point? I prayed and he never showed up.

Everyone said, "just wait, you'll hear him." "In God's time." "Maybe his silence is his answer."

Yes, that last one was right, in a way. The silence was the answer. That there is no one there listening. But it is better to know the truth than to keep believing in fairy tales. Better to embrace reality than to be suffering under the delusion that there's a benevolent being out there, just waiting to give you "the desires of your heart."
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29-05-2015, 06:23 AM
RE: Your Main Sticking Point..
(28-05-2015 07:20 PM)mycole Wrote:  My main sticking point? I prayed and he never showed up.

Everyone said, "just wait, you'll hear him." "In God's time." "Maybe his silence is his answer."

Yes, that last one was right, in a way. The silence was the answer. That there is no one there listening. But it is better to know the truth than to keep believing in fairy tales. Better to embrace reality than to be suffering under the delusion that there's a benevolent being out there, just waiting to give you "the desires of your heart."

Yeah, I had that exact same thing happen to me. When I was having trouble believing I would pray to God just to know he was out there. There is a fundamental difference on getting a silent response to "God, can I have some money to fix this?" and "God, are you even out there?".

What kind of god lets his followers doubt his existence?
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29-05-2015, 06:57 AM (This post was last modified: 29-05-2015 07:02 AM by Mr. Boston.)
RE: Your Main Sticking Point..
Here are my basic reasons:

1. God(s) and supernatural entities/realms are not necessary to explain a universe which functions exactly the way it would if there were no gods or supernatural entities/realms.

2. There has never been a problem or question man has faced wherein a scientific or natural explanation was later replaced by a divine or supernatural one. It ALWAYS goes in the other direction. Phenomena from lightning to disease to seizures, all of which were once thought to be the work of gods or demons, were eventually found-out to be natural and best dealt with scientifically.

3. The stories/dogmas just don't make any objective sense and seem much more like eons of wishful thinking, redirection to explain-away the obvious flaws, and maintain a hierarchical structure that's concerned as much (or more) with the preservation of its own power than with providing any help to individuals or the world at large.

4. Whatever good work can be attributed to people of faith and faith-based organizations (food assistance, hospitals, homeless shelters, etc.) could be carried out just as well if the faith component were removed. Charity towards one's fellow man need not come from a divine source - it's an instinctual response from many social pack animals. Gorillas take care of each other with no knowledge of gods, for example. If the God concept were to vanish tomorrow, people would still donate to cancer research, etc.

So for me it all boils down to god(s) and the supernatural being unnecessary. We simply don't need them for either explanation or inspiration. God is a poor hypothesis. I could go on all day about how faith is divisive, harmful, and in fact antithetical to the development of knowledge and brotherhood but the question was about why I personally don't believe, not why I think others should stop too.
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29-05-2015, 07:06 AM
RE: Your Main Sticking Point..
Well there's the "it's not defined" problem.

Let's say you claim to have a flibbityjibbet. And you ask me if it is possible for the flibbityjibbet to exist. I can't answer. If I say I believe the flibbityjibbet exists, and it turns out that a flibbityjibbet is defined as an object that is both all red and all yellow at the same time, then I'm wrong because it is impossible for such a thing to exist. If I say no and it turns out that a flibbityjibbet is just another name for a blue softball then I'm wrong because that is perfectly plausible. The only reasonable stance is to ask for a definition first, but theists WON'T PROVIDE IT. They keep trying to shift the matter or dodge the question entirely. This might be because once they do define this being it can be torn apart. Most try to sneak omnipotence into the mix, which makes their god impossible. Or they try to sneak in omniscience, which also makes their god logically impossible. So they won't define it, hoping to sneak these things under the radar.

Another problem I have is the complete and utter ridiculous way that the concept is just asserted as a catch all term for shit we don't know or can't understand. My dad, who has no theistic beliefs, says he sees no problem with calling random chance god. When pointed out that the word comes with a lot of baggage and is deliberately misleading he tells me "that's the idea!" He doesn't care that by using this word he is creating confusion, in fact he revels in it (I think it needs to be pointed out that he is a lawyer). But this does show how theists just use their god as a filler for things they can't or won't understand. It also shows how they can deliberately twist language to be deliberately deceptive.
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