Your judgement day defense strageity?
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03-02-2014, 12:31 PM
RE: Your judgement day defense strageity?
(03-02-2014 12:29 PM)Crulax Wrote:  I'll tell you what, if your god can shut Taqiyya up then that's the god I will believe in!

I'm in.
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03-02-2014, 12:38 PM
RE: Your judgement day defense strageity?
(03-02-2014 12:31 PM)Anjele Wrote:  
(03-02-2014 12:29 PM)Crulax Wrote:  I'll tell you what, if your god can shut Taqiyya up then that's the god I will believe in!

I'm in.

I'm in.

Big Grin

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!

Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77

You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
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03-02-2014, 01:01 PM
RE: Your judgement day defense strageity?
If there is an all powerful god and he could just get Taq to respond in one post instead of 50 responses quoting one sentence per reply, I'd probably be convinced he is all powerful Wink

Official ordained minister of the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster. Please pm me with prayer requests to his noodly goodness. Remember, he boiled for your sins and loves you. Carbo Diem! RAmen.
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03-02-2014, 01:02 PM
RE: Your judgement day defense strageity?
(03-02-2014 11:00 AM)Drich Wrote:  Actually no. the no true scotsman fallacy hinges on the idea that there aren't actual requirements for a true scotsman.

Nope. It does apply. Thanks for playing!

(03-02-2014 11:00 AM)Drich Wrote:  Unfortunatly your appeal to this fallacy is unfounded because there are indeed rules to Christianity founded in Scripture.

Christ himself tells us that not everyone who calls themselves a christian are indeed followers of Christ. Then He proceeds to give reasons why.


See, here's the thing: you can't know whether or not we've tried the prescribed method.
(incidentally, for what it's worth, many of us have)

The claim is "if X then Y". If you ask ("correctly" Rolleyes ) then you will get "the" answer.

Faced with people saying "I X'd but didn't get Y", you say "you didn't X right".

There literally could not be a a more perfect and succinct example of a No True Scotsman fallacy.

Deal with it.

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03-02-2014, 01:19 PM
RE: Your judgement day defense strageity?
(03-02-2014 09:39 AM)Drich Wrote:  
(03-02-2014 03:51 AM)Slowminded Wrote:  But what would you do? If all that Christianity thing is wrong and you find yourself in front of any of the thousands of gods people believe in?

Are you going to say that it was only reasonable for you to be a Christian because you were born in a Christian family?

Will you claim that Christianity makes most sense of all other religions that you didn't investigate?

Or will you say you were a good and moral man?

Or do you have something better?

Will you feel stupid if god hates Christians the same way Christian god hates other religions?
I would spit in whatever god I had to answer to eye and welcome what ever fate i had before me.

If The God of the bible is not at the end of this life then I want nothing to do with the next.
Thumbsup Exactly my sentiment if the god of the bible is at the end of this world.

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03-02-2014, 01:35 PM (This post was last modified: 03-02-2014 01:46 PM by Momsurroundedbyboys.)
RE: Your judgement day defense strageity?

Closing thread to do a Taq split.

Do not continue to make multiple posts containing mostly memes and other garbage Taq. Use your words, if you have nothing to add to the discussion just STFU. Any valid point you might make is completely lost in the sea of other crap you post.

Thread reopened

But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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03-02-2014, 01:54 PM
RE: Your judgement day defense strageity?
(03-02-2014 11:21 AM)DLJ Wrote:  
(03-02-2014 11:11 AM)Drich Wrote:  ...
It's like you guys were all pressed out of one of 3 molds.

[1] The not sure/but wants to live like they wants atheist. (this one thinks a death bed confession or later conversion will save him)

[2] The Johnny come lately who parrots what he thinks is strong atheist argument in order to convince themselves of their choice.

[3 T]he Misotheist who claims atheism often time because he does not know better.

I call Poe.

No way this is for real.

Big Grin

.... um, Poe's Law cites that a Poe is indistinguishable from a real wackjob.
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03-02-2014, 01:55 PM (This post was last modified: 03-02-2014 03:09 PM by Reltzik.)
RE: Your judgement day defense strageity?
(03-02-2014 05:18 AM)diddo97 Wrote:  
(03-02-2014 04:46 AM)morondog Wrote:  The chances are pretty slim old bean Wink As in, close to zero, in my estimation. YMMV, but you've just asked me what I'd do if I travelled to the North pole and met Santa, basically. I can answer the question but it's not terribly edifying. What would *you* do if you met Santa ? See ? It's F.A.N.T.A.S.Y. Not real. I prefer to waste my time with real stuff.

How do you know the chances? How do you know it's fantasy? Why are you camparing a supposedly perfect being to an easily disproven child's myth? How do you know if anything is real?

I'm confused. Which one's the easily disproven myth?

(03-02-2014 06:37 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(03-02-2014 05:18 AM)diddo97 Wrote:  How do you know if anything is real?

We all have to assume that we're not all just brains floating in vats in some collective matrix simulation if we want to get anywhere epistemologically, even the theists. Positing such a question does nothing other than to show that we all have to, at base, make some assumptions for us to function at all. Theists however have to make far more baseless assumptions to support their worldview than does an evidentialist, and we all know what Occam says about not multiplying needless assumptions.

Actually, I like to begin with the objective of influencing the sensory feed into my consciousness towards results that I would regard as more positive. I then adopt a hypothesis that there is an iceberg of unsensed things, corresponding to the iceberg-tip of what I do sense and useful in predicting future sensory experiences as subject to my own activity. This underlying iceberg is what I define as reality. So the Matrix scenario is at least part of reality, and if any "outside" force can never influence the simulation or my perception of it, even indirectly, then the Matrix is the whole of reality. Having defined reality thus, everything else is a matter of empiricism.

(03-02-2014 09:50 AM)Drich Wrote:  If Atheist Christians are right then nothing really matters and we should look to die now.


(03-02-2014 10:06 AM)DemonicLemon Wrote:  It starts off with me waking up in the area where I am ultimately judged. I see Yahweh, Jesus, The Holy Spirit, Muhammad, Joseph Smith, Moses, and the rest of the prophets and other important characters aligned with Yahweh.

After being judged by the rest to be evil, I scream at them about how they are infinitely worse than I, but they cast me down to hell anyway. It is there I am saved by Prometheus, who managed to free himself from the shackles Jehovah locked him in. He and I then trek through the underworld, finding how all the areas that were stolen from other pantheons to form this immense torture chamber. We speak to various gods of old religions, Greek, Egyptian, Norse, Hindu, Aztec, and the rest. Many gods feel guilt for their actions and realize now that they were monsters. Others are just pissed off at The Father for stealing their thrones and shit.

I then find Hephaestus and other gods of the smithy, who work for Yahweh only out of fear of being tortured. I speak to Hephaestus and he strikes a deal. Find the various tools used by other gods and he will modify them to be used against heaven.

Skip forwards a bit after grabbing the hide of the Nemean Lion, Thor's Mjolinr, and other tools to face off the heavens. Each were modified to become a single suit of armor. From there, I save a number of people to join me in fighting against Yahweh.

I chase after Muhammad and his Baraq with the Pegasus, and after he tries to stab me, I break his arm and throw him overboard.

I take the Baraq and fly it to heaven, where I then see Moses, who became more skilled with aquamancy, as he creates a monster out of the sea, which I then use tools by the various sea gods to push it back and create a monster of my own. I then throw my beast at his, opening a temporary hole exposing him inside, and launch myself at him, breaking his neck on impact.

Then comes Joseph Smith, who uses deception and invisibility to attack me. I simply stop falling for his ruse and gouge his eyes out, causing him to kill himself by falling into a pit while looking for a wall.

Jesus taunts me along the way as I face off against other prophets. Most of them I had to kill, but Jacob was one that stood out, as I actually convince him that since he defeated Yahweh once before, he can do it again, and that he shouldn't worship a deity he is more powerful than.

Then comes Jesus, who seemed to become more powerful the more I harm him, so I pull off the Nemean Hide and throw it on him, Trapping him withing the skin before burying him underneath rubble.

Yahweh then shows himself, with the Holy Spirit, in the form of a snake, wrapped around his arm. Jacob runs in first, then wrestles the snake off of him, and holds it back. I then run up to Yahweh and use my gauntlets (which used to be Thor's Hammer) to punch Yahweh into submission. It's a long battle but only because Yahweh's face seemed to reform itself slowly after caving in. To defeat him, I smash his head with my gauntlets and rip it clean off, and then I ram my fist into his chest, destroying his heart and grabbing hold of his spine, and I rip that out through his sternum. Jacob then dies from fighting the Holy Spirit, but with nowhere else to go, the Holy Spirit binds itself to me. Knowing the kind of power the Holy Spirit has corrupted many individuals, and I recognize it's influence among the gods of old and new. As the gods that wish for their throne back stepped up to beg me for it, I decide to release it's power to the world, as a world where everyone has the power of the gods has no gods at all.

NICE. But it needs a flip-off-the-wall maneuver. No self-insertion action fantasy sequence is complete without a flip-off-the-wall maneuver.

(03-02-2014 10:08 AM)Mathilda Wrote:  Do you think the religious posters on here are secretly disappointed in the answers that they get from this forum? Think about it, they imagine posing a question that will fill us with the same dread that they have. Questions such as, what would you do if it was all real?

Instead of answers like 'beg for forgiveness' and 'scream out Oh My God I am sorry I was wrong', they get replies they probably never thought of such as 'spit in the face of God' and 'ask for explanations' or asking 'which god are you?'.

Do the religious posters then assume that we are bluffing because they can't imagine thinking any other way?

Nonono, it's all confirmation bias. It proves to them we're unreachable, unsavable, and in rebellion against God, that atheists are angry (why are we angry?) and uncivil (despite us not declaring that most other people will and deserve to face an eternity of torture at the hands of a perfectly just being) and so on. Despite, you know, not having a shred of evidence (outside of the thoroughly shredded apologetics and one religion among zillions) of there even being a God. If they just started THERE, with presenting good evidence, then something might happen.

... something being that their normal everyday honesty might leak into their religious lives and they will REALIZE that there isn't any evidence. Or maybe they'll present something valid and WE'LL have to change our minds. Whichever. I know that I'm not the one who's afraid of that discussion, though.

(03-02-2014 10:16 AM)Drich Wrote:  
Quote:You gave me no proof.
Because many of you never asked God for proof in the way you have been instructed to approach him.

.... dude, you're telling me to ask something I don't believe exists for something I don't think that non-existent thing can provide according to an instruction set that comes across as foreskin-obsessed lunacy and which also tells me that I should kill nonbelievers, and that the fact that either (A) I'm not inclined to do this any more than I'm inclined to engage in the rituals of, say, the Prince Charles Movement (among gajillions of other possiblities); (B) I DID do this and didn't receive, recognize, whatever the promised evidence; or © I once believed, tried to find the evidence, couldn't, and stopped believing; somehow justifies... what, eternal torture? Whatever your flavor of hell is, man. My point is, you're telling us that we should pull ourselves up by our bootstraps in order for us to get issued our bootstraps in the first place. (It was A in my case, BTW.)

I call this the merry-go-round. Once you're on it, you can go from "I believe thing A" to thing B to thing C to thing D and have that come back around to support thing A. Like, Bible being true leads to a code for seeking self-confirmatory evidence of God to God being true to God having written the Bible to the Bible being true. Once you're at any of those points, then (true or not) they can get you the other points. But this ONLY works if you've already got one of the points. You don't seem to get that convincing people to join you on the merry-go-round isn't about explaining how the merry-go-round keeps you merrily spinning. It requires explaining to someone who ISN'T on the merry-go-round how to get on it in the first place. (Hint: It can't require us to already be on one of the horsies on the merry-go-round.)

Or for another metaphor, let's say I'm in my car leaving Seattle, and I'm heading for San Jose. I ask you, do you know the way to San Jose? You say, sure, and tell me how to get there from San Francisco. I say, okay, now how do I get to San Francisco? You tell me how to get there from Oakland. I'm starting to get frustrated, and I ask how to get to Oakland. You reply by giving me directions of how to get there from San Jose. Do you see how this set of instructions is utterly worthless to someone setting out from Seattle? You say you're here to facilitate a choice, but your methods are so poorly-thought out and so inept that there's no way that they can facilitate anything. I know WE don't take your Great Commission seriously, but it looks like you don't take it seriously either, given how little thought and planning you've put into it.

(03-02-2014 10:57 AM)Drich Wrote:  
(03-02-2014 10:22 AM)Vosur Wrote:  How could you possibly know that? You haven't even been here for a day.

Because God made a promise in luke 11 to Give anyone the Holy Spirit who A/S/K for it.

If you do not have it you did not follow the instructions outlined in Luke 11.

Right. That's one of the horsies on the merry-go-round.

... hang on, waitaminute, what PART of Luke 11? The part where it says a bunch of people are praying to Jesus? The parable about not giving serpents to someone who asks for eggs, as a metaphor for... what, prayer? We're supposed to pray to God for proof? Wouldn't that require us to believe there's a God to pray to in the first place? The "hey this guy cast out devils according to this book we believe is just fables" part? Or the "Pharisees are jerks" part? I just reread it and there isn't ACTUALLY a set of instructions for finding evidence that God is real that is applicable for someone who doesn't believe in the first place. A bunch of stuff BASED on the idea that God is real, but that's the whole Bible. Nothing to actually lead a nonbeliever to belief in the first place.

Still waiting for the answer to the question of what got you believing in the first place, so we can start dissecting whether that's a good reason to believe something.

EDIT: Anyone know how to stop this forum from turning my C's into copyright symbols when I'm trying to use them for list indices?
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03-02-2014, 01:58 PM
RE: Your judgement day defense strageity?
(03-02-2014 12:29 PM)Crulax Wrote:  I'll tell you what, if your god can shut Taqiyya up then that's the god I will believe in!

Psst...I think momsbb must be god.
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03-02-2014, 02:03 PM
RE: Your judgement day defense strageity?
(03-02-2014 01:58 PM)Anjele Wrote:  
(03-02-2014 12:29 PM)Crulax Wrote:  I'll tell you what, if your god can shut Taqiyya up then that's the god I will believe in!

Psst...I think momsbb must be god.

Worship Slaves

Onward, my faithful steed!
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