Your judgement day defense strageity?
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05-02-2014, 05:48 AM
RE: Your judgement day defense strageity?
Why would I need a strategy? The pope says I can go to heaven so long as I am a good person, even if I don't believe Wink

Seriously though, for all the bad things I have been through I am not a bitter person. I smile at everyone I meet. I am friendly and kind. I have never killed anyone and I have certainly never watched anyone suffer needlessly knowing I had the ability to help them. I feed homeless people, and I give to charity when I can afford it. I genuinely love people. I don't care who they are, or their race/religion/ethnicity, and I don't judge them on whatever mistakes they've made. I really love people it gets me hurt sometimes but I am naive and I never stop believing that most people are mostly good. Why on earth would I have to justify myself to a "God" who could never stand up to my level of goodness. Am I amazing, absolutely not. But if I was God, no one would be tired or hungry or poor, no one would be desperate or lonely or sick. I guess if I found myself facing God I would tell him exactly what I think of the terrible job he did and then I would ask when the next train to hell was.

Swing with me a while, we can listen to the birds call, we can keep each other warm.
Swing with me forever, we can count up every flower, we can weather every storm.
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05-02-2014, 05:54 AM
RE: Your judgement day defense strageity?
(03-02-2014 06:09 PM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  
(03-02-2014 05:59 PM)Anjele Wrote:  Answer the question, just give it a try.

Hughsie hates me, DL scares the shit out of me, Rev and Kim haven't been on, Dom didn't show up till late and Moms is immune to my tears.

So, which one?

That was a PREDICTION, dumbass. How the fuck do you even breathe on your own?

You know, I don't mind you losing it on the crazies, but why are you being mean to Anjele? I like Anjele...

Swing with me a while, we can listen to the birds call, we can keep each other warm.
Swing with me forever, we can count up every flower, we can weather every storm.
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05-02-2014, 06:28 AM
RE: Your judgement day defense strageity?
(03-02-2014 02:19 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(03-02-2014 01:50 AM)Drich Wrote:  Simple premise. If this whole atheism thing turns out to be wrong, and you die only to wake up standing before the God of the bible, what will you say?

You gave me no proof.

You should have done miricals in my time..

Will you try and turn things on God and put Him on the defensive?

Why do kids get cancer
Why do babies in Africa get aids or starve to death etc..

Or will you say you were a good and moral man?

Or will you be judged and go with what Christ decides?

Or do you have something better?

(This is not my creative work, but it seemed a better response than anything I'd care to write. Full credit in the link at the bottom.)

“But what if you’re wrong?” So goes the common questions posed to atheists by Christians. Putting aside for a moment the obvious retort (what if they are wrong and another religion is right?) I decided to really organize my thoughts a bit. What would I say if I was wrong, the Christians were right, and a moment after dying I found myself before the blinding majesty of Yahweh with Christ at his right hand?

Oh. Oh dear. I see. Well, I guess this is about as close to incontrovertible evidence for your existence as I could have ever demanded. Actually, as a good skeptic I pray you won’t get offended if I entertain the possibility that I’m experiencing a hypoxia-induced hallucination. But, I’ll just go along with this for now.

I’m not going to kneel or anything if you don’t mind. That would kind of be shutting the barn door after the cows have run out, don’t you think? Besides: by your will, I was thrust into life in a very undignified manner and state, so the least you could do would be to let me leave it in better circumstances. And really, that would be the very, very least you could do. You know, now that the initial shock of being dead is starting to wear off, I find myself getting angry. I’m trying to restrain it, but this whole situation is… absurd. According to most accounts, this is the part where you judge me. Who the hell are you to be a moral judge? You’re a sadistic, genocidal sex-obsessed tyrant. All my life, I laughed off those Christians who accused me of “hating God”. Like I told them, it wasn’t that I hated you; I just genuinely didn’t think you existed. But I did hate the idea of you. I didn’t see evidence to believe in any gods, but you in particular seemed like a logical contradiction. I was glad that the Bible was a work of-seeming-fiction because the belief that all of the most terrible things in the world were, at the worst, designed by or, at the best, permitted by an all-powerful conscious being was too horrible to not hate. It’s oddly refreshing to find that all this time I was outraged at something more tangible.

Or is this the part where your grand plan is revealed, your “mysterious ways” made clear? Will you say the magic words and suddenly I’ll understand how a child being raped, murdered, and left in a ditch fits in with you infinite benevolence? Will starvation and disease make sense? Because you know, I don’t think I want them to make sense. If that’s part of your omniscient knowledge, then I don’t want that part. I guess its fitting: humanity’s first act of defiance was to want knowledge to be more like you. Then let my last act of defiance be choosing ignorance so that I can be as unlike you as possible.

This is all perfectly futile. You know me better than anyone. You know my mind. You know how I thought. You know – and had the power over- all the circumstances in my life that meant you very existence seemed impossible to me. After all, you “knit me together in my mother’s womb,” didn’t you? So am I just a casualty of free will, then? You wanted worship from people who could choose to worship you and, to satisfy your ego, decided it was a fair price to create people whom you knew wouldn’t choose you and would face eternal torture for it. You know, even if almost everything had been perfect, a world free from pain and death where everyone would freely choose to spend an eternity with you – except for one person, and yet you made him anyways… then you would still be infinitely more evil than all the worst of humanity combined. You’re going to judge me? On behalf of all that’s good and decent in your creation, I judge you. I may have been a willful child, but you were a terrible father.

I can’t say I’m really inclined to beg for my soul now, given what I said about you knowing me perfectly. Even so, supposing mercy’s still an option (and that last rant didn’t kill my chances), I guess it’s worth a shot. I can’t pretend I have any love for you, but no principle is worth being damned over if it can be helped. What shall I say in my defense?

I tried to be good without you. You told your followers to feed the hungry, clothe the poor, and visit the sick. I did those things, not because you told me to or because I thought I was “storing up treasure in heaven”. I did them for their own sake, for the sake of my neighbors. When I saw suffering, I tried to help instead of saying a quick prayer to you and believing I’d done something. And when I didn’t help and suffering continued, I held myself responsible instead of concluding it was just your divine will.

And I was content with one life- in fact, despite how terrible life could be, I was usually quite grateful to have one. I didn’t demand more. I was content to create my own meaning in the meaningless chaos, to find love in all the pain, to find the beautiful simplicity in the apparent complexity. And I have to say, you may have failed basic ethics but you sure had a deft hand when it came to creating the cosmos – not least because you did it in such a way as to make yourself seem irrelevant. The splendor of the night sky, the incredible diversity of life, everything. Quantum mechanics? That was crazy, I loved it! And relativity? You were on a roll that day, really. I saw nearly all of your creation for what it was: wonderful. I didn’t look at an exquisitely intricate world and call it fallen. I didn’t look at a newborn baby and call it sinful. I didn’t look at my seemingly finite life and call it inadequate.

So you created us because you desired companionship and love? Well then, you needed me. But I didn’t need you. I grew up and took responsibility for my own life. If that really is the greatest crime of all, then there’s nothing more I can say. The deck was stacked against me, but honestly, I can’t truly say I have any regrets. Heaven, hell, oblivion… your move, God.

Though I still think I’m probably hallucinating.

Heart Heart Heart
This is what I wanted to say but this person says it so much more eloquently.

Swing with me a while, we can listen to the birds call, we can keep each other warm.
Swing with me forever, we can count up every flower, we can weather every storm.
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05-02-2014, 07:00 AM
RE: Your judgement day defense strageity?
(04-02-2014 03:00 PM)Peebothuhul Wrote:  
Drich Wrote:Oh, oh, and also I know you have not tried this prescribed method because you are not currently engaged in it. The method requires one look till He finds God. Apparently none of you has found God per the title you have awarded yourselves, and all of you have stopped looking again per the title you wear so proudly...

This is the first thing that's been posted that I've seen that has me exploding on my side of the keyboard.

To dismiss others as "You haven't done it right..."

To quote a paraphrase an old television character.. "It makes me want to jump through the screen and rip your bloody arms off!"

Farewell Aunty Jack

You're doing a good job of pushing people's aggression buttons Drich.

It's real simple.

If say the President out of the blue calls your mom and tells her to tell you to be at the white house for a state dinner on Saturday the 15th @ 6PM for a black tie dinner in your honor, and gives you nothing else, what do you do? Can you be there on the 8th @ 6? what about the 13th? Can you show up at 10 on the right day? what if you did not come dressed wearing a black tie? Do you think the president would make any more special concessions for you that he hasn't already made?

Who are you to dictate terms to the president of these united states?

Now take it up a few notches. In stead of a president put in Master and commander in chief of Creation. who has sacrificed his own son to invite you to this 'dinner in your honor.' All He askes in return (If you indeed need verfication) that you simply Ask, Seek and knock for it.

again We ask in prayer, we seek in the bible, Chruch and in conversations like this, we knock by repeating this process till we get what He has offered us. Just like in the parable of the persistant neighbor.

Now if you earnestly ask, and dillegently seek with all you have for 6 months and quit, did you knock as the neighbor did in Luke 11? did you follow the directions you were given?

In a word no..

So like it or not. If you call yourself an atheist you have told on yourself. You did not A/S/K as god has outlined.

Again in the black tie dinner at the white house. If the president tells you to do X,Y,Z then one does X,Y,Z if he wishes to be honored by this president. Same principle applies to God. Can't do X and Y and some of Z, and still expect recognision by God. If this is not an acceptable behaivor to our wordly leaders then what makes it ok for God?
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05-02-2014, 07:06 AM
RE: Your judgement day defense strageity?
If the US president phoned me out of the blue and asked me to be at the white house for a state dinner I'd have to know first that it wasn't a spoof before I spent money booking a flight to America.

Same goes for spending every Sunday and 10% of my wages just on something someone tells me.

But to put a halt to the 'no true Scotsman' fallacy that Drich keeps using.

Why not tell us what fool proof method we should be using to find God and let him into our lives rather than just dismissing everyone by saying "you didn't do it right"
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05-02-2014, 07:07 AM
RE: Your judgement day defense strageity?
The ol' president is a mite more tangible than your hypothetical deity...

You say we haven't asked, seeken or knocken enough ? But we say you're too daft to see what's in front of your eyes.

Oh, how shall we ever tell who's right ? By we I refer to some random person watching us 'cos I'm pretty firmly convinced I'm right and you're not playing with a full deck...

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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05-02-2014, 07:08 AM
RE: Your judgement day defense strageity?
So god is nothing but an overblown human authority figure? we figured that much!

btw, it's not A/S/K it's A/S/L

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05-02-2014, 07:16 AM
RE: Your judgement day defense strageity?
(05-02-2014 01:05 AM)Astreja Wrote:  Nonsense! The very existence of such a place as hell would automatically make your god's alleged love a cruel absurdity.
You are aware God does not love everyone correct? In fact there is a list of names that can be found in the bible of those in whom God hated.

God does not send those who He loves and who loves him to Hell.

Quote: I cannot choose in favour of a god that would be aware of the suffering of others and ignore them for eternity, neither rescuing them nor allowing them a simple alternative that doesn't involve torturing them.
The bible says Hell is forever, and the only one made to endure it for the whole time is satan. It says nothing bout the rest of us.

Quote: I can think of many such options: Painless annihilation; reincarnation; erasing the memory of hell from their minds and allowing them to wander the universe.
Rolleyes Memory wipes never work out very well haven't you seen total recall? then what all the angry members of humanity get to gether and try and overthrow God??? This happened already with lucifer and his buddies. Why would God set all of us for that again? 'People' have been given a chance. If they were responsiable with the little life they were given they will be responsiable with much. If they weren't then they are going to not be responsiable with more.

Quote:If there is such a place as hell (although I doubt that very much), I have a moral obligation to go there to offer whatever comfort I can to all who are imprisoned there, until such time as they can all be liberated. This is absolutely non-negotiable.
This is my point exactly... Liberated to live quietly in the corner of the universe or liberated to storm the gates of Heaven and try and over throw God?
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05-02-2014, 07:22 AM
RE: Your judgement day defense strageity?
(05-02-2014 04:13 AM)Mathilda Wrote:  Exactly. How on Earth does Drich suppose that he will convert anyone or point them in the right direction or in anyway make them receptive to his ideas if his whole demeanour irritates people?
The same way i wore my wife down to the point she would go out on a date with me for the first time. Consistancy! And a supernatural ablity to answer biblically based questions about God and Christianity in a easy to understand way.Angel

Quote:It suggests that he isn't really here in order to truly help people or to further his religion but to feel good about himself.
What kind of person 'feels good' about being called nasty names?

Quote:It seems apparent from reading his posts that his arrogance stems from his inability to understand new concepts.
Wouldn't that be a little humbling, especially if those 'concepts' had merrit?

Quote:He thinks he's really experienced at debating but I bet you that he won't properly listen to anyone discussing stuff that he doesn't understand. That's different from not agreeing. He'll not even bother trying to demonstrate that he understands what's being said.
Actually I disagree. In every single one of your posts i went line by line and addressed your subject matters completely. your response? an attempt of a general dismissal based on your experiences with talking to other christians. None of what you said here applies to me..
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05-02-2014, 07:24 AM
RE: Your judgement day defense strageity?
(05-02-2014 07:07 AM)morondog Wrote:  You say we haven't asked, seeken or knocken enough ?

From what I can tell Drich thinks we should never stop asking, seeking and knocking until we get the answer.

Drich cannot understand, at least certainly hasn't acknowledged yet, that people may have doubts as to the veracity of the Bible and Christian religion.

Drich's confirmation bias will also mean that if someone does spend years doing this and finally starts to believe that they have a personal relationship with Jesus that this confirms that his method works. Not being a critical thinker he won't entertain alternative explanations, such as years of asking to let God into your life will effectively condition you into believing it because we are not rational creatures.

This is the guy asking us to voluntarily condition ourselves into a belief for the rest of our lives without any evidence as to whether that belief is true or not.

I think that he's onto a loser with that one.
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