Your reasoning behind atheism
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09-05-2012, 08:48 AM
RE: Your reasoning behind atheism
(08-05-2012 09:48 PM)angry-santa Wrote:  It really is impossible for you to wrap your head around the fact that their are people without faith that group together isn't it?

I don't understand your question.

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09-05-2012, 09:12 AM
RE: Your reasoning behind atheism
(08-05-2012 09:48 PM)angry-santa Wrote:  
(07-05-2012 12:31 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  @Lilith as well

This, again, is a belief based on evidence; not proof. That's what I'm saying.

You believe because of where the evidence points not where absolute proof is - as absolute proof is unobtainable.

A lack of belief demonstrates a "belief system" founded on the evidence of nothing. The evidence that is presented to you is enough conviction to enforce a lack of belief.

Nothing can't exist. There is always something. The lack of belief is something. It's a belief system that doesn't embrace the supernatural. I know this is a semantic issue, but it is something worth addressing.

Yes, atheism is a lack of belief; however, that is still a belief.
It really is impossible for you to wrap your head around the fact that their are people without faith that group together isn't it?

Get off the KC. Positive belief =/= faith.

Besides, I feel the same way. Mostly I don't give my fellow atheists shit about it, but for me, "lack of belief" is meaningless verbosity. Seems to me that many profess such to achieve some kind of moral superiority. Tongue

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09-05-2012, 09:39 AM
RE: Your reasoning behind atheism
(09-05-2012 09:12 AM)houseofcantor Wrote:  
(08-05-2012 09:48 PM)angry-santa Wrote:  It really is impossible for you to wrap your head around the fact that their are people without faith that group together isn't it?

Get off the KC. Positive belief =/= faith.

Besides, I feel the same way. Mostly I don't give my fellow atheists shit about it, but for me, "lack of belief" is meaningless verbosity. Seems to me that many profess such to achieve some kind of moral superiority. Tongue

To answer KING, It just seems like you can't mention the word atheism without the word faith.

KC I define it less as belief and more, For me any way, As reality as I understand it based on the evidence I am presented with.
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09-05-2012, 09:47 AM
RE: Your reasoning behind atheism
(09-05-2012 09:39 AM)angry-santa Wrote:  
(09-05-2012 09:12 AM)houseofcantor Wrote:  Get off the KC. Positive belief =/= faith.

Besides, I feel the same way. Mostly I don't give my fellow atheists shit about it, but for me, "lack of belief" is meaningless verbosity. Seems to me that many profess such to achieve some kind of moral superiority. Tongue

To answer KING, It just seems like you can't mention the word atheism without the word faith.

KC I define it less as belief and more, For me any way, As reality as I understand it based on the evidence I am presented with.
Fair enough.

I understand that line of thinking, but a neutral or a lack of a belief doesn't negate the fact that that belief does exist or has the potential to exist.

Like I said, absolute proof is impossible. Evidence is how we form beliefs and opinions, but despite strong evidence, or even overwhelming evidence, there is still no absolute.

You have faith in the evidence that is presented to you that it is accurate and overwhelming; therefore, you have your belief.

You have faith that a God/gods cannot exist based on evidence; not proof. Since nothing can be proved 100% true (due to infinite different possibilities), it is by faith that all beliefs are formed.

Does that make sense?

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09-05-2012, 09:47 AM
RE: Your reasoning behind atheism
I have no reliance on faith or belief, just as well I have no reliance on atheism... certainly not as an institution or defined concept.
None of these things is able to get me through life. I don't dwell on what is not. I can't eat scenery. Shy

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09-05-2012, 10:18 AM
RE: Your reasoning behind atheism
(09-05-2012 09:47 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(09-05-2012 09:39 AM)angry-santa Wrote:  To answer KING, It just seems like you can't mention the word atheism without the word faith.

KC I define it less as belief and more, For me any way, As reality as I understand it based on the evidence I am presented with.
Fair enough.

I understand that line of thinking, but a neutral or a lack of a belief doesn't negate the fact that that belief does exist or has the potential to exist.

Like I said, absolute proof is impossible. Evidence is how we form beliefs and opinions, but despite strong evidence, or even overwhelming evidence, there is still no absolute.

You have faith in the evidence that is presented to you that it is accurate and overwhelming; therefore, you have your belief.

You have faith that a God/gods cannot exist based on evidence; not proof. Since nothing can be proved 100% true (due to infinite different possibilities), it is by faith that all beliefs are formed.

Does that make sense?
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I do not, No let me try this; I do not have faith in evidence. When science discovers something, say that water turns into ice when exposed to cold temperatures, They do not then say well "I have faith that this process will work every time, YAY SCIENCE!" No.


How it actually works is we test, re test and then test some more so we can document, support and conclusively say that water turns into ice; We have the evidence to back that up, tests to back up the evidence and models to back up the validity of the tests.





What I do have is assurance and to a smaller degree belief (=/= faith) that said scientific processes are accurate.
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09-05-2012, 10:23 AM
RE: Your reasoning behind atheism
(09-05-2012 10:18 AM)angry-santa Wrote:  
(09-05-2012 09:47 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  Fair enough.

I understand that line of thinking, but a neutral or a lack of a belief doesn't negate the fact that that belief does exist or has the potential to exist.

Like I said, absolute proof is impossible. Evidence is how we form beliefs and opinions, but despite strong evidence, or even overwhelming evidence, there is still no absolute.

You have faith in the evidence that is presented to you that it is accurate and overwhelming; therefore, you have your belief.

You have faith that a God/gods cannot exist based on evidence; not proof. Since nothing can be proved 100% true (due to infinite different possibilities), it is by faith that all beliefs are formed.

Does that make sense?
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I do not, No let me try this; I do not have faith in evidence. When science discovers something, say that water turns into ice when exposed to cold temperatures, They do not then say well "I have faith that this process will work every time, YAY SCIENCE!" No.

How it actually works is we test, re test and then test some more so we can document, support and conclusively say that water turns into ice; We have the evidence to back that up, tests to back up the evidence and models to back up the validity of the tests.



What I do have is assurance and to a smaller degree belief (=/= faith) that said scientific processes are accurate.
And, this brings us back to the invalidity of question, "Can you prove that God does/doesn't exist."

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09-05-2012, 12:05 PM
RE: Your reasoning behind atheism
Well, I usually call myself a freethinker, meaning (to me anyways) that I don't classify myself as anything in specific but just follow my brain, wherever it shall take me.

So then people tell me that if I just talked to god he would reveal himself.

Thing is, I can't talk to god because I don't believe that anyone is there. It's like walking around talking to the tooth fairy. To talk to someone you have to believe that they are there in some way.

If you don't believe something, you can't just pretend you do and that makes it happen.

So I don't believe there is a god who can hear me anymore than I believe there is a tooth fairy. I can see that if you go around talking to yourself (or god) eventually you will come up with answers to your questions and I guess that is god then. Really it's just you answering your own questions.

Maybe there is some god somewhere somehow, but I am pretty sure it is not any one of the ones humans worship. And what's with the worshipping nonsense anyway? Teenagers worship their first loves or movie stars or whatever, but once you are over that, I don't get the worship thing at all. It's pubescent.

Anyway, so what does that make me?

Best I can come up with is non believer. I don't have faith that god does exist, nor that he doesn't. I do know religion is crap. It's the drug of the people because you get to have an invisible friend and you get to partake in euphoric group experiences.

People ask me if I don't at least want to cover my bases and stay on the Lord's good side. That totally makes no sense, if you don't believe you don't believe and faking it doesn't get anyone anyplace.

I just don't much believe stuff. The closest I come to believing stuff is to say "I'll take your word for it" when someone tells me something, and mostly that just means I'll accept the premise since I think you are rational. Still doesn't really mean I believe it, just that I'll accept it as your view.

Is the line between believing and knowing really so thin that people who believe something end up thinking they know it?

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09-05-2012, 03:39 PM
RE: Your reasoning behind atheism
(09-05-2012 10:23 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(09-05-2012 10:18 AM)angry-santa Wrote:  [Image: facepalm.jpg]


I do not, No let me try this; I do not have faith in evidence. When science discovers something, say that water turns into ice when exposed to cold temperatures, They do not then say well "I have faith that this process will work every time, YAY SCIENCE!" No.

How it actually works is we test, re test and then test some more so we can document, support and conclusively say that water turns into ice; We have the evidence to back that up, tests to back up the evidence and models to back up the validity of the tests.



What I do have is assurance and to a smaller degree belief (=/= faith) that said scientific processes are accurate.
And, this brings us back to the invalidity of question, "Can you prove that God does/doesn't exist."
Yes, at least when people make specific claims that god is doing "x" thing I can.
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09-05-2012, 03:51 PM
RE: Your reasoning behind atheism
(09-05-2012 03:39 PM)angry-santa Wrote:  
(09-05-2012 10:23 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  And, this brings us back to the invalidity of question, "Can you prove that God does/doesn't exist."
Yes, at least when people make specific claims that god is doing "x" thing I can.
That's not what I asked.

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