"Your" team? Hardly.
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02-02-2015, 11:07 AM
RE: "Your" team? Hardly.
(02-02-2015 06:19 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  
(02-02-2015 06:08 AM)gofish! Wrote:  Thanks for sharing with us where you really stand.

Let's talk about what's REALLY bothering you, rather than the silly "yer a fag" name calling........

Sports fandom -is very similar to religion.

It's basis is not rational - but emotional.

Any argument you can make in favor of sports is because of emotions, not rational thought.

My original post was to point that out - that you're cheering for something - just because somebody (the team owners - the guys making the money) want you to support them.

Not because you have any rational reason to do so.....

...

Or, just keep throwing insults....

I've got thick skin.

Wait, you first equate sports fans to “guys who used to shower together”, then presume to know that what grates others is something other than “the silly ‘yer a fag’ comment”, and then make the leap of faith and conclude it is because it is “similar to religion”, and then, ironically point the finger at being called on it...no shit?

How enlightening.

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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02-02-2015, 11:13 AM
RE: "Your" team? Hardly.
(02-02-2015 10:56 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(02-02-2015 10:52 AM)gofish! Wrote:  I'll refer you both to my post in this thread dated 31/01, which explains.

It is not a surprise to me that non-sports fans don't get it, especially in New World countries where town and district identities are weak.

But that really is the point. The players aren't locals, though they may have been a century ago.

Fandom is what Kurt Vonnegut called a granfalloon.
Wiki Wrote:A granfalloon, in the fictional religion of Bokononism (created by Kurt Vonnegut in his 1963 novel Cat's Cradle), is defined as a "false karass". That is, it is a group of people who affect a shared identity or purpose, but whose mutual association is actually meaningless.

I can't see evidence that you have assimilated my point (dated 31/01) about town/district identity. By definition there is a meaning, as it relates to personal identity.

It sounds like you might not have experienced this, so a closer comparison may be appropriate: family.

Unless of course you have disassociated yourself from them for some reason.

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Me.
N.B: I routinely make edits to posts to correct grammar or spelling, or to restate a point more clearly. I only notify edits if they materially change meaning.
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02-02-2015, 11:18 AM
RE: "Your" team? Hardly.
(02-02-2015 11:13 AM)gofish! Wrote:  
(02-02-2015 10:56 AM)Chas Wrote:  But that really is the point. The players aren't locals, though they may have been a century ago.

Fandom is what Kurt Vonnegut called a granfalloon.

I can't see evidence that you have assimilated my point (dated 31/01) about town/district identity. By definition there is a meaning, as it relates to personal identity.

It sounds like you might not have experienced this, so a closer comparison may be appropriate: family.

Unless of course you have disassociated yourself from them for some reason.

I understand the point, and family is a very poor object of comparison as family is an actual connection.

I pointed out that the people on the team are almost certainly not from one's town/district, so there's that.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
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02-02-2015, 11:43 AM (This post was last modified: 02-02-2015 12:22 PM by gofish!.)
RE: "Your" team? Hardly.
(02-02-2015 11:18 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(02-02-2015 11:13 AM)gofish! Wrote:  I can't see evidence that you have assimilated my point (dated 31/01) about town/district identity. By definition there is a meaning, as it relates to personal identity.

It sounds like you might not have experienced this, so a closer comparison may be appropriate: family.

Unless of course you have disassociated yourself from them for some reason.

I understand the point, and family is a very poor object of comparison as family is an actual connection.

I pointed out that the people on the team are almost certainly not from one's town/district, so there's that.

I agree that family is a poor comparison, but then what else can I use? Ultimately we have a tribal instinct which is akin to an extended family.

As for who plays for the team, that's almost irrelevant. They are simply the team's "champions" (in the medieval sense of the word). It is the connection with place as identity that trumps the players' origins.

Oh and by the way, I'm not easily swayed by concepts from fiction writers, however talented. That's how all those theists got into trouble in the first place. Tongue

"I don't mind being wrong...it's a time I get to learn something new..."
Me.
N.B: I routinely make edits to posts to correct grammar or spelling, or to restate a point more clearly. I only notify edits if they materially change meaning.
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02-02-2015, 11:47 AM
RE: "Your" team? Hardly.
On a vaguely related note...

When I travel to different countries, I am aware of my lack of local knowledge of 'celebs'. Pictures on hoardings / billboards and magazines and everywhere, advertising pretty much everything.

I am also aware how out-group I am and also, thankfully, how immune I am to this kind of advertising... the celebrity endorsement.

But not just when I travel. I few mins ago, I watched an Adidas ad (about shiny boots and how everyone must be envious of them). I seriously don't know whether the muscle men standing looking muscly and unconcerned about my supposed envy, were sports celebs or whether Adidas have uncharacteristically gone for unknowns to advertise their brand.

Ignorance is bliss, it seems.

Yes

The OP's point about using brand / pack / team / in-group loyalty to get punters to part with their hard earned cash must be true or why else would advertisers keep doing it.

I revel in my immunity.

Drinking Beverage

That reminds me... I must get me a TTA T-shirt... brand loyalty ... which over here will ironically isolate me as 'out-group'.

/musing

Smile

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02-02-2015, 12:29 PM
RE: "Your" team? Hardly.
(02-02-2015 11:43 AM)gofish! Wrote:  
(02-02-2015 11:18 AM)Chas Wrote:  I understand the point, and family is a very poor object of comparison as family is an actual connection.

I pointed out that the people on the team are almost certainly not from one's town/district, so there's that.

I agree that family is a poor comparison, but then what else can I use? Ultimately we have a tribal instinct which is akin to an extended family.

As for who plays for the team, that's almost irrelevant. They are simply the team's "champions" (in the medieval sense of the word). It is the connection with place as identity that trumps the players' origins.

I understand that we can view the reasons for fandom rationally and conclude that those reasons are emotional - not reasoned.

Quote:Oh and by the way, I'm not easily swayed by concepts from fiction writers, however talented. That's how all those theists got into trouble in the first place. Tongue

The concept is simple; the writer puts it in amusing terms.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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02-02-2015, 01:11 PM
RE: "Your" team? Hardly.
(02-02-2015 10:56 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(02-02-2015 10:52 AM)gofish! Wrote:  I'll refer you both to my post in this thread dated 31/01, which explains.

It is not a surprise to me that non-sports fans don't get it, especially in New World countries where town and district identities are weak.

But that really is the point. The players aren't locals, though they may have been a century ago.

Fandom is what Kurt Vonnegut called a granfalloon.
Wiki Wrote:A granfalloon, in the fictional religion of Bokononism (created by Kurt Vonnegut in his 1963 novel Cat's Cradle), is defined as a "false karass". That is, it is a group of people who affect a shared identity or purpose, but whose mutual association is actually meaningless.

That's rather facetious on ol' Kurt's part, seeing as the very act of association is meaningful...

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02-02-2015, 01:17 PM
RE: "Your" team? Hardly.
(02-02-2015 01:11 PM)cjlr Wrote:  
(02-02-2015 10:56 AM)Chas Wrote:  But that really is the point. The players aren't locals, though they may have been a century ago.

Fandom is what Kurt Vonnegut called a granfalloon.

That's rather facetious on ol' Kurt's part, seeing as the very act of association is meaningful...

Perhaps Kurt was very much in touch with his inner Aspie. Smile

"I don't mind being wrong...it's a time I get to learn something new..."
Me.
N.B: I routinely make edits to posts to correct grammar or spelling, or to restate a point more clearly. I only notify edits if they materially change meaning.
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02-02-2015, 03:39 PM
RE: "Your" team? Hardly.
I would have to think some in depth psychology has been done on the history of athletic events and human nature's fascination of them. I don't think it's a coincidence that the most popular sports are usually the most violent.
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02-02-2015, 04:29 PM
RE: "Your" team? Hardly.
(02-02-2015 03:39 PM)Fodder_From_The_Truth Wrote:  I would have to think some in depth psychology has been done on the history of athletic events and human nature's fascination of them. I don't think it's a coincidence that the most popular sports are usually the most violent.

I was about to agree except that futbol/soccer is the most popular sport in the world. Sure there’s the occasional hit but nothing like rugby or American football.

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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