Zhou Enlai
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30-05-2013, 03:37 AM
Zhou Enlai
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zhou_Enlai

Throughout much of the communist revolution in China Zhou was one of Mao's most important right hand man. Zhou was the second in command under Mao serving as premier of China until his death in 1976. His intellect and skill combined with Mao's intellect and skill was a big driving source of winning the communist revolution and civil war against Chang Kai Shek, along with ruling china and turning China from a war torn agricultural society to a world industrial power.

Zhou is a revered figure among Chinese historians, he died just months before Mao died.
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30-05-2013, 03:40 AM
RE: Zhou Enlai
Here are some of his works translated into english.
https://www.marxists.org/reference/archi.../index.htm
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30-05-2013, 04:42 AM
RE: Zhou Enlai
Opinion on the famine in the late 50's - 60's and the anti-rightest movement?
Seeming as you're so opinionated about communism, I might as well ask you because at least I know you can think for yourself.

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30-05-2013, 05:15 AM
RE: Zhou Enlai
(30-05-2013 04:42 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  Opinion on the famine in the late 50's - 60's and the anti-rightest movement?
Seeming as you're so opinionated about communism, I might as well ask you because at least I know you can think for yourself.

How does one have an opinion on a famine? Aren't most famines like the current one in Capitalist somalia considered a bad thing? Why ask for an opinion on it? unless you are looking for the "right" opinion on it. Rolleyes

What anti-rightist movement are you referring to?
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30-05-2013, 05:48 AM
RE: Zhou Enlai
Opinion on the whole thing, not just the famine itself but on the events leading up to it etc.. the fact that a "communist" country neglected it's very people that put them in that power etc.... The famine was Mao caused afterall. Did you even know your hero singlehandedly caused the worst famine in history?
The anti rightist movement in the lat 50's.

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30-05-2013, 05:51 AM
RE: Zhou Enlai
(30-05-2013 05:48 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  Opinion on the whole thing, not just the famine itself but on the events leading up to it etc.. the fact that a "communist" country neglected it's very people that put them in that power etc.... The famine was Mao caused afterall. Did you even know your hero singlehandedly caused the worst famine in history?
The anti rightist movement in the lat 50's.

How many people died? What do you mean by "caused" a famine? How are famines intentional and purposefully carried out? Do these happen under capitalist governments?
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30-05-2013, 06:10 AM
RE: Zhou Enlai
So just googled it (not knowing the numbers off the top of my head.) and lol'd so hard at the first two lines.
Not because famine is funny but because, well, typical communism...

And Jesus fucking Christ that's a lot of people!! Between 20-45million.
I thought you would have known this I&I? Showing your ignorance of history continues I see...

Mao caused it because the anti-rightest movement earlier scared people. He killed anyone who did not agree with the party, intellectuals etc..
Little background info first:
When Mao came to power he forced everyone into collectives (note, we're talking about rural farmers here) in their villages.
Join together all their land etc.. and work and live in collectives (which didn't increase productivity btw).

So anyway. The Great Leap Forward comes along, spear headed by Mao, and makes the collectives competitive. So the collectives lie about production of grain etc.. and the government takes their "tax" of this grain based on the lied about number (leaving none for the villages, thus famine). People were simply too scared to tell Mao and the government the truth behind how much (or little) they were producing and so the government continued to take large amounts of grain and leave none for the peasants. When Mao did learn the numbers were all hashed he refused to accept this and his government continued to take all the peasants grain based on the numbers they were use to getting.
ie: A collective lied and said they produced 10 tons of grain but only produced 5 tons. The government would take their tax from the 10 ton number when really it should have been the 5 ton number that the tax was calculated from.
When the government learned the truth 5 tons would be reported but Mao was use to hearing 10 and so continued to tax from 10.
Thus huge huge famine.

Mao scared the people. He spear headed the anti-rightest movement. And then he starved the people when he spear headed the great leap forward.
Before the anti rightest movement when mao stepped down, the people in charge were running things in capitalist way (much like it is now) and things were improving. BUT Mao hated this gradual change and ignorantly thought that communism to succeed radical policy needed to occur. It's his radical policy which fucked the countries people in the ass with a cactus.


I'd type more but I don't like typing on my laptop.

I don't talk gay, I don't walk gay, it's like people don't even know I'm gay unless I'm blowing them.
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30-05-2013, 06:19 AM
RE: Zhou Enlai
(30-05-2013 06:10 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  So just googled it (not knowing the numbers off the top of my head.) and lol'd so hard at the first two lines.
Not because famine is funny but because, well, typical communism...

And Jesus fucking Christ that's a lot of people!! Between 20-45million.
I thought you would have known this I&I? Showing your ignorance of history continues I see...

Mao caused it because the anti-rightest movement earlier scared people. He killed anyone who did not agree with the party, intellectuals etc..
Little background info first:
When Mao came to power he forced everyone into collectives (note, we're talking about rural farmers here) in their villages.
Join together all their land etc.. and work and live in collectives (which didn't increase productivity btw).

So anyway. The Great Leap Forward comes along, spear headed by Mao, and makes the collectives competitive. So the collectives lie about production of grain etc.. and the government takes their "tax" of this grain based on the lied about number (leaving none for the villages, thus famine). People were simply too scared to tell Mao and the government the truth behind how much (or little) they were producing and so the government continued to take large amounts of grain and leave none for the peasants. When Mao did learn the numbers were all hashed he refused to accept this and his government continued to take all the peasants grain based on the numbers they were use to getting.
ie: A collective lied and said they produced 10 tons of grain but only produced 5 tons. The government would take their tax from the 10 ton number when really it should have been the 5 ton number that the tax was calculated from.
When the government learned the truth 5 tons would be reported but Mao was use to hearing 10 and so continued to tax from 10.
Thus huge huge famine.

Mao scared the people. He spear headed the anti-rightest movement. And then he starved the people when he spear headed the great leap forward.
Before the anti rightest movement when mao stepped down, the people in charge were running things in capitalist way (much like it is now) and things were improving. BUT Mao hated this gradual change and ignorantly thought that communism to succeed radical policy needed to occur. It's his radical policy which fucked the countries people in the ass with a cactus.


I'd type more but I don't like typing on my laptop.

WHERE does this figure of deaths come from?

And do you believe that famines under capitalism are accidental or purposeful?
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30-05-2013, 06:24 AM
RE: Zhou Enlai
Read the wiki article.
"According to government statistics, there were 15 million excess deaths in this period.[1] Unofficial estimates vary, but scholars have estimated the number of famine victims to be between 20 and 43 million.[2] Historian Frank Dikötter, having been granted special access to Chinese archival materials, estimates that there were at least 45 million premature deaths from 1958 to 1962.[3][4] Chinese journalist Yang Jisheng concluded there were 36 million deaths due to starvation, while another 40 million others failed to be born, so that “China’s total population loss during the Great Famine then comes to 76 million.”[5] The phrase "Three Bitter Years" is often used by Chinese peasants to describe this period.[6]"

The Chinese government says 15million, so it's 15million at the very least.
Though I suspect they're bias towards low numbers.


Depends on the famine. Though IMO under capitalism they'd be more likely to be an actual natural disaster (ie: no rain).

I don't talk gay, I don't walk gay, it's like people don't even know I'm gay unless I'm blowing them.
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30-05-2013, 06:29 AM
RE: Zhou Enlai
"40 million others failed to be born" what the fuck? How are hypothetical non existant human beings counted as victims of a famine?

My hypothetical marriage to Eva Mendez is verging on divorce because we haven't met.

Rolleyes
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