a conversation today at work
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19-08-2014, 03:08 PM (This post was last modified: 19-08-2014 03:28 PM by goodwithoutgod.)
Wink a conversation today at work
So let me set the stage, for those who don't know, I am an officer in the US Navy. The rules are in the military that as a representative of the US government, we can not identify one religion over the other, and in no way can "support" one view or another officially. What they can do, and do very well, is employ chaplains from different faiths who work in the chapel and provide services, counseling etc for those who wish to attend. I am used to seeing an occasional "all hands email" come out of their office advertising this or that so people know when they want, if they want, to participate in whatever delusion makes them happy. In a nut shell, the rules are very strict outside of that.

As an officer, we have separate messing (place to eat) so we can relax and talk shop outside of the hearing of junior personnel, and sometimes that can go a bit wild. We got a new senior chaplain on board and he is excited to be here....he must have sent out 10 emails in a day about this or that service. Then you can't walk 15 feet without viewing a 2 foot by 3 foot poster stating: CHRISTIAN FELLOWSHIP WORKSHOP, or some other delusional propaganda advertisement. The problem is, even though we have rules, no one wants to be the guy to point it out and make the situation uncomfortable.....enter me into the equation.

So the 5 of us (1 senior officer, 3 warrants and a new LT, we all work in the same department)were sitting down to lunch, as I sat down I was shaking my head because there was yet another sign right next to my seat on the wall. Here is how it went:

T: Hey bro, what's wrong?
Me: I dunno, it would be nice if I could walk five fucking feet and not have to view a christian mythology propaganda poster. Just a bit excessive don't you think?
T: What are you a Wiccan?
Me: No, I am an atheist.
T: SO what do you believe in?
Me: The real world, I don't subscribe to mythology.
C: So you don't believe in anything? *incredulous*
Me: Nope, just the real world around us, not delusional transcendental belief systems.
C:: SO you don't believe JC died for our sins on the cross? *he is a 7th day adventist*
Me: Nope, a man named jesus may have existed, but not the son of god myth.
T: SO because one person doesn't believe in anything, the rest of us have to suffer?
*at this point, the new guy who had been eating quietly as this went on, looked up and said...*
R: I am an atheist.
Me: see, just because your reality is your belief system, and it happens to be the majority, and by majority that is about 50-55% of US, 35-40% of US is non religious. There are 5 of us at this table, 2 are atheist, kind of matches US demographics. Now, once again, it is excessive to have one version of religion splattered all over the command, which by the way, goes against religiosity within the workplace laws.
T: You are going to hell.
Me: lol, hell doesn't exist, in accordance with christian doctrine it is a place devoid of god, since god doesn't exist, I guess this is "hell".

Then I smiled broadly, and left them spluttering and went back to work....awesome.

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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19-08-2014, 03:16 PM
RE: a conversation today at work
Facepalm

But kudos to you...

What would have happened if you argued the Christian signage without mentioning your non-belief but kept it about it seemingly endorsing a particular religion over others?

I'm curious about that...but still kudos to you!


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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19-08-2014, 03:19 PM
RE: a conversation today at work
(19-08-2014 03:08 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  So let me set the stage, for those who don't know, I am an officer in the US Navy. The rules are in the military that as a representative of the US government, we can not identify one religion over the other, and in no way can "support" one view or another officially. What they can do, and do very well, is employ chaplains from different faiths who work in the chapel and provide services, counseling etc for those who wish to attend. I am used to seeing an occasional "all hands email" come out of their office advertising this or that so people know when they want, if they want, to participate in whatever delusion makes them happy. In a nut shell, the rules are very strict outside of that.

As an officer, we have separate messing (place to eat) so we can relax and talk shop outside of the hearing of junior personnel, and sometimes that can go a bit wild. We got a new senior chaplain on board and he is excited to be here....he must have sent out 10 emails in a day about this or that service. Then you can't walk 15 feet without viewing a 2 foot by 3 foot poster stating: CHRISTIAN FELLOWSHIP WORKSHOP, or some other delusional propaganda advertisement. The problem is, even though we have rules, no one wants to be the guy to point it out and make the situation uncomfortable.....enter me into the equation.

So the 5 of us (1 senior officer, 3 warrants and a new LT)were sitting down to lunch, as I sat down I was shaking my head because there was yet another sign right next to my seat on the wall. Here is how it went:

T: Hey bro, what's wrong?
Me: I dunno, it would be nice if I could walk five fucking feet and not have to view a christian mythology propaganda poster. Just a bit excessive don't you think?
T: What are you a Wiccan?
Me: No, I am an atheist.
T: SO what do you believe in?
Me: The real world, I don't subscribe to mythology.
C: So you don't believe in anything? *incredulous*
Me: Nope, just the real world around us, not delusional transcendental belief systems.
C:: SO you don't believe JC died for our sins on the cross? *he is a 7th day adventist*
Me: Nope, a man named jesus may have existed, but not the son of god myth.
T: SO because one person doesn't believe in anything, the rest of us have to suffer?
*at this point, the new guy who had been eating quietly as this went on, looked up and said...*
R: I am an atheist.
Me: see, just because your reality is your belief system, and it happens to be the majority, and by majority that is about 50-55% of US, 35-40% of US is non religious. There are 5 of us at this table, 2 are atheist, kind of matches US demographics. Now, once again, it is excessive to have one version of religion splattered all over the command, which by the way, goes against religiosity within the workplace laws.
T: You are going to hell.
Me: lol, hell doesn't exist, in accordance with christian doctrine it is a place devoid of god, since god doesn't exist, I guess this is "hell".

Then I smiled broadly, and left them spluttering and went back to work....awesome.

I just hate that line "so you don't believe in anything?". Get it all the time. How arrogant can someone be to think that if I don't believe as they do that I don't believe in anything. Good grief.

Do not lose your knowledge that man's proper estate is an upright posture, an intransigent mind and a step that travels unlimited roads. - Ayn Rand.

Don't sacrifice for me, live for yourself! - Me

The only alternative to Objectivism is some form of Subjectivism. - Dawson Bethrick
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19-08-2014, 03:20 PM (This post was last modified: 19-08-2014 03:25 PM by Adrianime.)
RE: a conversation today at work
Haha, Overall good job, but man I would not be the one to start that conflict. You are unashamed and confident and that is admirable.

I prefer fantasy, but I have to live in reality.
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19-08-2014, 03:22 PM
RE: a conversation today at work
(19-08-2014 03:16 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  Facepalm

But kudos to you...

What would have happened if you argued the Christian signage without mentioning your non-belief but kept it about it seemingly endorsing a particular religion over others?

I'm curious about that...but still kudos to you!

I usually tread very carefully at work, and use what you just mentioned. Today, for whatever reason I had decided enough was enough.

Several years ago (2003) I got stationed in Jacksonville Florida as the Weapons Dept Leading Chief Petty Officer. The facility is all the way down a road outside of the rest of the main base, kind of isolated. I pulled up into the parking lot and they had church music blaring over the outside/inside intercom system...I walked into the office and every wall had a picture of black jesus christ, I kid you not...every wall. I quietly made a few phone calls to the base senior chaplain, found out the rules, and immediately cleaned house. Four people who worked in the office, (one senior to me, who I was relieving, and 3 others junior to me) filed a formal grievance against me through the Navy Equal Opportunity program. An investigation was done, I was vindicated, training was held to explain to them the rules of religiosity in the workplace. They never knew I was an atheist, I heard the whispers, "he is probably an atheist", but it never came up, and I never offered the info because it was irrelevant. It has no place in the workplace, it is illegal, and the problem is it is just accepted because the majority think that way, and the minority don't want to create a fuss over it...

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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19-08-2014, 03:24 PM
RE: a conversation today at work
(19-08-2014 03:19 PM)true scotsman Wrote:  
(19-08-2014 03:08 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  So let me set the stage, for those who don't know, I am an officer in the US Navy. The rules are in the military that as a representative of the US government, we can not identify one religion over the other, and in no way can "support" one view or another officially. What they can do, and do very well, is employ chaplains from different faiths who work in the chapel and provide services, counseling etc for those who wish to attend. I am used to seeing an occasional "all hands email" come out of their office advertising this or that so people know when they want, if they want, to participate in whatever delusion makes them happy. In a nut shell, the rules are very strict outside of that.

As an officer, we have separate messing (place to eat) so we can relax and talk shop outside of the hearing of junior personnel, and sometimes that can go a bit wild. We got a new senior chaplain on board and he is excited to be here....he must have sent out 10 emails in a day about this or that service. Then you can't walk 15 feet without viewing a 2 foot by 3 foot poster stating: CHRISTIAN FELLOWSHIP WORKSHOP, or some other delusional propaganda advertisement. The problem is, even though we have rules, no one wants to be the guy to point it out and make the situation uncomfortable.....enter me into the equation.

So the 5 of us (1 senior officer, 3 warrants and a new LT)were sitting down to lunch, as I sat down I was shaking my head because there was yet another sign right next to my seat on the wall. Here is how it went:

T: Hey bro, what's wrong?
Me: I dunno, it would be nice if I could walk five fucking feet and not have to view a christian mythology propaganda poster. Just a bit excessive don't you think?
T: What are you a Wiccan?
Me: No, I am an atheist.
T: SO what do you believe in?
Me: The real world, I don't subscribe to mythology.
C: So you don't believe in anything? *incredulous*
Me: Nope, just the real world around us, not delusional transcendental belief systems.
C:: SO you don't believe JC died for our sins on the cross? *he is a 7th day adventist*
Me: Nope, a man named jesus may have existed, but not the son of god myth.
T: SO because one person doesn't believe in anything, the rest of us have to suffer?
*at this point, the new guy who had been eating quietly as this went on, looked up and said...*
R: I am an atheist.
Me: see, just because your reality is your belief system, and it happens to be the majority, and by majority that is about 50-55% of US, 35-40% of US is non religious. There are 5 of us at this table, 2 are atheist, kind of matches US demographics. Now, once again, it is excessive to have one version of religion splattered all over the command, which by the way, goes against religiosity within the workplace laws.
T: You are going to hell.
Me: lol, hell doesn't exist, in accordance with christian doctrine it is a place devoid of god, since god doesn't exist, I guess this is "hell".

Then I smiled broadly, and left them spluttering and went back to work....awesome.

I just hate that line "so you don't believe in anything?". Get it all the time. How arrogant can someone be to think that if I don't believe as they do that I don't believe in anything. Good grief.

I know...I "believe" in lots of stuff. I just don't "believe" in god...


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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19-08-2014, 03:26 PM
RE: a conversation today at work
(19-08-2014 03:20 PM)Adrianime Wrote:  Haha, Overall good job, but man would I not be the one to start that conflict. You are unashamed and confident and that is admirable.

Times have evolved in the military where you don't get instantly ostracized for expressing atheistic views, and the fact I am senior to most (28 years service so far, not many are willing to stand up and enter heated battle with me), coupled with I have gained a lot of confidence on being able to articulate my views, substantiate my non belief and stand there eye to eye and say, No, it is a delusion.

A rather comfortable place to be honestly.

Thumbsup

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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19-08-2014, 03:46 PM
RE: a conversation today at work
(19-08-2014 03:26 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  
(19-08-2014 03:20 PM)Adrianime Wrote:  Haha, Overall good job, but man would I not be the one to start that conflict. You are unashamed and confident and that is admirable.

Times have evolved in the military where you don't get instantly ostracized for expressing atheistic views, and the fact I am senior to most (28 years service so far, not many are willing to stand up and enter heated battle with me), coupled with I have gained a lot of confidence on being able to articulate my views, substantiate my non belief and stand there eye to eye and say, No, it is a delusion.

A rather comfortable place to be honestly.

Thumbsup

Oh how I love this answer!


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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22-08-2014, 02:04 AM
RE: a conversation today at work
I hope an atheist writes your efficiency report.Thumbsup

Sapere aude
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22-08-2014, 04:29 AM
RE: a conversation today at work
(22-08-2014 02:04 AM)f stop Wrote:  I hope an atheist writes your efficiency report.Thumbsup

hehe actually my boss is a fundamentalist Christian who knows fully too well my views. But I am at "terminal paygrade" and retire in less then two years so I am not too worried. Besides I would have someone's ass if they had the audacity to write me an unsubstantiated shitty evaluation without basis beyond they don't like my anti-religious views. Evil_monster

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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