a page on new testement violence
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05-03-2014, 07:51 PM
RE: a page on new testement violence
(05-03-2014 07:41 PM)Lion IRC Wrote:  
(05-03-2014 07:34 PM)RobbyPants Wrote:  ...According to the Bible, husbands can force themselves on their wives all they want. There is no protection for the women against this.

FALSE.
A husband must love and honor his wife and give himself up for her benefit.
A husband and wife (joined by God) must and do love each other as one flesh.

I asked for an explicit prohibition on rape and you still haven't provided it. If you wanted to go for something implicit, Jesus' whole "love your neighbor as yourself" commandment would have been better.

That being said, no where does that say, or even imply that the husband can't force his wife to have sex with him. While I certainly agree that if you love or honor a woman, you wouldn't rape her, the Bible has still yet to make that claim. You are interpreting it because you, as a humanist, see rape as a problem; not because the Bible said it was bad. You're interpreting it that way because you want to. It's wishful thinking.

I'm dead serious. You will not, at any point, find an explicit prohibition on rape in the Bible unless it's adding additional if-then qualifiers to it. And those qualifiers make things worse, once you take them in context.
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05-03-2014, 10:33 PM
RE: a page on new testement violence
(05-03-2014 07:33 PM)Lion IRC Wrote:  Sex outside marriage is sinful.
Rape is outside marriage.

Re "Sex outside marriage is sinful." "Rape is outside marriage."

Please explain
“...but spare the lives of the young girls who have never slept with a man, and keep them for yourselves” (Num. 31:18, NJB.)

“If a man meets a young virgin who is not betrothed, and seizes her, sleeps with her and is caught in the act, her ravisher must give the girl’s father fifty silver shekels; since he has exploited her, she must be his wife and, as long as he lives, he may not divorce her” (Deut. 22:28–29, NJB.)

“If a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not leave as male slaves do. If she does not please her master who intended her for himself, he must let her be bought back: he has not the right to sell her to foreigners, for this would be a breach of faith with her. If he intends her for his son, he must treat her as custom requires daugh- ters to be treated. If he takes another wife, he must not reduce the food, clothing or conjugal rights of the first one. Should he deprive her of these three things she will leave a free woman, without paying compensation” (Exod. 21:7–11, NJB.) The girl could be sold back after being used, or become one of many wives, or be given to the purchaser’s son.

I could go on...there's plenty more....
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06-03-2014, 01:03 AM
RE: a page on new testement violence
(05-03-2014 06:35 PM)Lion IRC Wrote:  Blush
Im so terrribly sorry I made you wait that long for a reply.
I can see why you leapt to the obvious conclusion that I had abandoned the thread after making you sit there pressing F5, F5, F5, F5, F5........ for a whole 12 hours.
It's just that because I'm timid and lacking confidence, it takes me a long time to work up the nerve to face up to a bunch of internet atheists and defend the bible.

It's taking you an even longer time to realize you're defending bullshit. But, if you're willing to wait over 2,000 years for Jesus to return, I can wait a few more for you to come to your senses. I'm thinking my odds are better than yours. Thumbsup

If Jesus died for our sins, why is there still sin? If man was created from dust, why is there still dust? If Americans came from Europe, why are there still Europeans?
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06-03-2014, 01:05 AM
RE: a page on new testement violence
(05-03-2014 10:33 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  “If a man meets a young virgin who is not betrothed, and seizes her, sleeps with her and is caught in the act, her ravisher must give the girl’s father fifty silver shekels; since he has exploited her, she must be his wife and, as long as he lives, he may not divorce her” (Deut. 22:28–29, NJB.).

No, no, no. It's consensual seizing and ravishing. Tongue

If Jesus died for our sins, why is there still sin? If man was created from dust, why is there still dust? If Americans came from Europe, why are there still Europeans?
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06-03-2014, 01:18 AM
a page on new testement violence
(05-03-2014 07:33 PM)Lion IRC Wrote:  Sex outside marriage is sinful.
Rape is outside marriage.

You've been shown multiple biblical verses condoning, encouraging, and endorsing not only sex outside of marriage -- e.g. the keeping of sex slaves, and raping prisoners of war -- and this is the best you could come up with?

Lion: "God hates rape! Therefore I hate rape! Rape is terrible!"

Thread: "Actually. . . We don't need God to tell us rape is bad. In fact, here's where your God says rape is A-OK, and we don't agree with that. It's disgusting savagery to support rape."

Lion: "Well, any sex outside of marriage is RAPE and a SIN! Therefore God says rape is bad!"

Thread: "No, God pretty clearly endorses rape. Refer to the biblical passages posted."

Lion: "Sex outside of marriage is sinful. Including rape."

Thread: "But what about all these biblical passages where rape is endorsed?"

Basically, what Lion seems to support is that while rape is a sin, it's no worse than wearing mixed-fiber clothing, or mucking out the gutters on a Sunday.

“It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts.”
― Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
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