a thread that made me want to vomit
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28-02-2011, 11:52 AM (This post was last modified: 28-02-2011 12:42 PM by Lilith Pride.)
RE: a thread that made me want to vomit
(27-02-2011 03:38 PM)BnW Wrote:  People who take advantage of and harm children should be hung in a public square and left to rot. There is no excuse for it, not even being drunk or on drugs.

Does this include first times where the child is not seriously injured? My previous example of my father who changed his life because it happened is an example of something unplanned happening. He's considered a pedophile and will be for his entire life, it's cost him many employment opportunities. You think we should hang someone the first time drinking leads to something bad? There are horrible predators within the pedophile spectrum, but that's not everyone.

It's understandable why pedophiles in the US have the excessive stigma that they do, but it doesn't mean that every single person is a monster. People shouldn't be arrested due to being found with a photo. There are cases where parents' innocent bathtime photos of the children they are proud of end up getting them arrested.

Every little incident that happens is treated like the worst incident possible, the fact is a large amount of people with urges do not become predators. Predators need watched just like any rapists. Molestation is the same difference it just happens with younger victims.

I'm a victim of this, and my statement on it is very definite. The harshness that people are viewed with in a lot of states in the US is really bad. The ones who are generally most punished are the ones who really don't plan this kind of thing. Predators don't admit guilt, and it usually ends up letting them get away, while people who have genuine unexpected incidents rot in prison because of the real predators. What's the bad thing about the people who can change? They admit to having done it, which makes them more of a monster than those who won't admit it. That's how laws work currently.

Make sure the person is a real monster before you condemn them to that fate. My dad made a big difference in my sisters' life since her real father was actually abusive. Had my mom not agreed to drop the charges with a plea he would've been imprisoned for 30 years and my sister would never have gotten to know the man who did that to her and understand he's not a monster.

I'm not a non believer, I believe in the possibility of anything. I just don't let the actuality of something be determined by a 3rd party.
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28-02-2011, 01:13 PM
RE: a thread that made me want to vomit
My worst issue is that under certain circumstances men do very stupid things.
During war times they rape, in prison they rape and some on occasion take advantage of minors.

This is what really horrifies me , that a regular person , could , under certain circumstances take advantage of kids - how do you protect kids against that ?

Also - I remember reading somewhere there are female pedophiles also, at a 1 to 10 ratio when compared to males.What are your thoughts on that ?

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28-02-2011, 01:29 PM
RE: a thread that made me want to vomit
I found it laughable.

Usually those sort of threads get chewed to pieces after a short while.

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28-02-2011, 02:04 PM
RE: a thread that made me want to vomit
Of course there are female pedophiles, in anything that happens it's not going to be only one side. It's just in general men do bad things more often.

I'm not a non believer, I believe in the possibility of anything. I just don't let the actuality of something be determined by a 3rd party.
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28-02-2011, 07:15 PM
 
RE: a thread that made me want to vomit
(28-02-2011 01:13 PM)gaglamesh731 Wrote:  Also - I remember reading somewhere there are female pedophiles also, at a 1 to 10 ratio when compared to males.What are your thoughts on that ?

I remember hearing about a female teacher that had sex with a 'boy' (a minor) in order for that to happen the boy would have to get an erection (something kind of hard to FORCE someone to do!) in order to have sex with them. Technically, the teacher is a pedophile, even though it's different circumstances because the boy was probably excited as hell to fuck his hot teacher (and she was attractive), while a male teacher having sex with a younger girl would be assumed that the male was forcing sex upon the girl. So while a teenage boy may get a high-5 from dad by scoring with a hot blond woman, I know it's not necessarily right and there is much to discuss about it.



@Sacrieur: Perhaps the bumper sticker should say "Kill your local Child Predator" ? While technically 'pedophile' or 'pedophilia' refers to the illness and not necessarily the act, most people might just think of that person as a 'pervert' if they know they are creepy but have not done anything bad. I don't think it has anything to do with logical fallacy but rather interpretation of the word.
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28-02-2011, 09:12 PM
RE: a thread that made me want to vomit
(28-02-2011 11:32 AM)Sacrieur Wrote:  You're all making a logical fallacy. Just because someone is a pedophile does not mean they are a child molester or rapist. This is known as affirming the consequent, and your reasoning can be summed up as follows:

If someone is a child molester/rapist, then they are a pedophile.

If a person is a pedophile, then they are a child molester/rapist.

Originally, the argument form is If A, then B (known as modus ponens). The second argument is in the form If B, then A (affirming the consequent). Affirming the consequent is a logical fallacy. Allow me to counter-example it.

If you are a horse, then you are a mammal.

Glenn Beck is a mammal, therefore he is a horse.

This clearly isn't true, so your reasoning is faulty.

Don't be obtuse. We are not discussing thought crimes here. If you want to sit in your room and jackoff to mental visions of 8 year old's, then have at it. Cross the line into reality and face the consequences.

I can't believe this is even a debate. People are responsible for their actions. Urges, drugs, etc. are not an excuse or a defense. People are accountable for what they do, period.

@Lilith - I can't comment on your father because I don't know the details, facts, etc. But, from what you described then I'd say: yes, including your father. It's great that he realized what he did and (apparently) never did it again. That is not the norm, though. Most child molesters are recidivist. You catch them, you imprison them, you let them go and very often they do it again. Additionally, there is, in my opinion at least, nothing more reprehensible than someone who takes advantage of their authority or their relationship with children as a means to take advantage of them. I find that even more disgusting then the animals who kidnap children and molest them. I'm generally not an absolutist but when it comes to abusing children, I tend to get very rigid in my views.

@Free Thinker - I don't know if I recall the same story you do, but I do recall a story of a twenty-something year old teacher having sex with a barely pubescent boy (I think she had his child). Society seems to be less upset by this in general (she went to jail but there was less of an outcry about it), but if it was one of my sons I'd take a baseball bat to the woman's head if I was given the chance.

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28-02-2011, 09:36 PM
RE: a thread that made me want to vomit
(28-02-2011 09:12 PM)BnW Wrote:  @Free Thinker - I don't know if I recall the same story you do, but I do recall a story of a twenty-something year old teacher having sex with a barely pubescent boy (I think she had his child). Society seems to be less upset by this in general (she went to jail but there was less of an outcry about it), but if it was one of my sons I'd take a baseball bat to the woman's head if I was given the chance.

A story? This happens almost weekly. I frequent another board that posts these stories on a very regular basis.

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28-02-2011, 11:23 PM
 
RE: a thread that made me want to vomit
(28-02-2011 09:12 PM)BnW Wrote:  @Free Thinker - I don't know if I recall the same story you do, but I do recall a story of a twenty-something year old teacher having sex with a barely pubescent boy (I think she had his child). Society seems to be less upset by this in general (she went to jail but there was less of an outcry about it), but if it was one of my sons I'd take a baseball bat to the woman's head if I was given the chance.

Clearly this was wrong (your story or mine, it doesn't matter.) I can't remember the age of the boy or the details, I think I may have still been a teen myself or it was earlier in the decade. While the boy may not wake up from nightmares of rape or have suffered emotionally from the direct act of sex, it still would have messed up his life if she did become pregnant, as well as the stigma that would haunt him for the rest of his life (hey you were the kid that had sex with the teacher!!!). As a guy, and remembering being in middle school and having a hot looking teacher in her 20s, this could naturally be a fantasy for a boy- but is just plain wrong for the teacher and is no excuse. The kid is too young to be doing this type of behavior (especially with someone who should be saying NO!). I am 27 and don't have children yet so I must claim some ignorance to this particular topic that we are discussing.

I agree with you BnW 100% that it is morally and ethically wrong and should be treated without double standards.
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28-02-2011, 11:42 PM (This post was last modified: 28-02-2011 11:47 PM by Lilith Pride.)
RE: a thread that made me want to vomit
Well BnW, your opinions are shared by a majority of people. I just feel that while molestation is horrid, the views have been carried too far. Current crime dramas (like Law and Order:SVU) deal with molestation as an impossible to fight addiction. Having stories of people who leave prison to commit acts again, which is common because prison doesn't teach repentence in any way it just tells you the world is cruel. And even stories of teenagers with desires for young children being shown as monsters for life life and it's good for them that they die rather than living on despite never having done anything.

I used my father as an example, because it's easier for me to relate that story to you. A more well known example is Paul Reubens who became a children's TV icon with Peewees Playhouse, until someone noticed him jacking off in a porn theater where people go to jack off. Since he was known as a role model for children the idea of him masturbating led people to brand him as a molestor even though he was watching the same movies those men considered perfectly normal watch. He had periodic searches of his house, and many confiscated porn with the idea that it seems the men in this magazine are under age. He was labeled a pedophile and black listed everywhere without ever having done anything.

Why mention my dad? Because my sister is a lot more well adjusted now due to having him in her life. Because I was less than 1 years old at the time, and I would've never had a father if he had been imprisoned or as you suggest hung. There is a terrible issue in some states where predators molest get caught go to prison 5 years and then they molest again with no worser repercussions. That doesn't mean that the cases that actually are accidental should be treated so harshly.

Your opinion is a common one, I just wish people could look past the propagandized monster and realize. No matter what your personal demons it's possible to overcome them, and that a first offense does not mean repeated offense. Yes the cases where children reach 16 and talk about the uncle that's used them for years are enough to condemn for life. Those people are going beyond any moral reprehension, but cases where it's one single incident are a bit different. Even murderers who in truth do something more than scarring someone by ceasing their existence get a second chance at life (including those who murder kids). Predation is wrong, but stamping out the accidents does nothing to solve that problem. It only injures families that weren't in that category.

I'm not a non believer, I believe in the possibility of anything. I just don't let the actuality of something be determined by a 3rd party.
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01-03-2011, 12:09 AM
RE: a thread that made me want to vomit
There are a lot of instances in the English language where concepts become muddied, and terms are misused, over-used and misconstrued to the point where they take on meanings they never should have had. Atheist is such a term, schizophrenic is such a term, and pedophile is such a term.

Child molestation, child abuse, and child neglect are all bad things, and should be dealt with. However, the stigma associated with a wrongful accusation is an injustice as well. We all need to tread carefully. After all, as unbelievers we all run the risk of facing the fate of Socrates. There but for the grace of providence go I.

To paraphrase Rabi N.: "First they came after those suffering sexual confusion, and I said nothing because I was not sexually confused."
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