abandoning belief
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26-07-2014, 07:07 PM
abandoning belief
I think that we as atheists should abandon the notion that we "believe" in anything at all.

Any atheist IMO who says that we do believe in something, is being a hypocrite. Belief is essentially the same thing as faith.

Quote:be·lief
biˈlēf/
noun
1.
an acceptance that a statement is true or that something exists.
"his belief in the value of hard work"
a religious conviction.
"Christian beliefs"
synonyms: ideology, principle, ethic, tenet, canon; More
2.
trust, faith, or confidence in someone or something.

I think there is a better word out there that we can use to imply what we "know" is true and what we "know" is not true. Belief as the word should only be used in the negative term I think. As in, I do not believe in fairy tales, deities or dragons.

Surely there must be a better word so we can distance ourselves from having the Christians place the "faith" tag on us even more so than they do now.

What do you all think?


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26-07-2014, 07:12 PM
RE: abandoning belief
I think that trying to engineer language in this manner is doomed to failing. In addition English as a language is so laden with intricacies of context that anyone not able to distinguish between the use of the word belief in a theist or atheist context is ignorant. Wittingly or otherwise.


"Name me a moral statement made or moral action performed that could not have been made or done, by a non-believer..." - Christopher Hitchens



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26-07-2014, 07:15 PM
RE: abandoning belief
Let's leave the twisting of words to the theists, they seem to enjoy that. Smile
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26-07-2014, 10:14 PM (This post was last modified: 26-07-2014 10:36 PM by Reltzik.)
RE: abandoning belief
(26-07-2014 07:12 PM)CiderThinker Wrote:  I think that trying to engineer language in this manner is doomed to failing. In addition English as a language is so laden with intricacies of context that anyone not able to distinguish between the use of the word belief in a theist or atheist context is ignorant. Wittingly or otherwise.

I bellythink to goodmake Newspeak thiswise is unmakeful. Oldspeak as Oldspeak is bellythinkful with plusmany doublethink that undoublethink between speak belief as doubleplusungoodthink or goodthink is blackwhite. Knowwise or Unknowwise.

Fixed Goodmaked.

Please read no endorsement or disparagement into that. I'm just in a doubleplusweird mood tonight.
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27-07-2014, 01:25 PM (This post was last modified: 27-07-2014 01:36 PM by RogueWarrior.)
RE: abandoning belief
(26-07-2014 07:07 PM)Shadow Fox Wrote:  I think that we as atheists should abandon the notion that we "believe" in anything at all.

Any atheist IMO who says that we do believe in something, is being a hypocrite. Belief is essentially the same thing as faith.

Quote:be·lief
biˈlēf/
noun
1.
an acceptance that a statement is true or that something exists.
"his belief in the value of hard work"
a religious conviction.
"Christian beliefs"
synonyms: ideology, principle, ethic, tenet, canon; More
2.
trust, faith, or confidence in someone or something.

I think there is a better word out there that we can use to imply what we "know" is true and what we "know" is not true. Belief as the word should only be used in the negative term I think. As in, I do not believe in fairy tales, deities or dragons.

Surely there must be a better word so we can distance ourselves from having the Christians place the "faith" tag on us even more so than they do now.

What do you all think?

That is just crazy talk.
Everybody believes something. The important part is WHY?
Do we have a good reason to believe? Depends on the evidence doesn't it?

Faith is a special type of belief. No evidence required. You can believe anything you care to based on feelings or someone's say so.

Theists can try to apply the faith tag all they want. That tactic holds no water because it completely ignores what atheism is and tries to shoehorn it into something they think they can fight.

It takes no faith at all to disbelieve and that is all atheism is. Disbelief in the theistic claims about gods. I personally love this tactic from a theist. People usually lead with their best argument, and if this is their best...Evil_monster

The things that theists accused atheists of having faith in, like evolution or the BB theory or any science in contradiction to their beliefs, has absolutely no bearing on atheism.

Let's say all the science that contradicts the bible is wrong, does that automatically mean the bible is right? That would be a big fat NO.
Every claim must stand on its own merits. So even if science is completely wrong, theists STILL have to proof their claim is true. They don't get a free pass. I know they THINK they do but they are so wrong.

If every claim was automatically true because competing claims are proven false, just think of all the nonsense that could 'proven' that way.

The best analogy would be from the courtroom:
The defendant can't prove his innocence so does that make him automatically guilty?
No, because the prosecutor still has to make his case to get the conviction.
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28-07-2014, 12:11 PM
RE: abandoning belief
Nonbelief.

I am not accountable to any God. I am accountable to myself - and not because I think I am God as some theists would try to assert - but because, no matter what actions I take, thoughts I think, or words I utter, I have to be able to live with myself.
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28-07-2014, 12:54 PM
RE: abandoning belief
Many atheists do the opposite and instead declare there is little that they actually "know".

However you slice it, we are imperfect and belief is an appropriate stance on subjects that you aren't confident you are correct about.

I prefer fantasy, but I have to live in reality.
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29-07-2014, 08:42 AM
RE: abandoning belief
I don't think there is any reason for us to get uptight about something like using a term like belief. As the definition said, belief can also mean trust or confidence in someone or something. So what's wrong with saying "I believe in my friends" as a way of saying "I have trust in my friends"?

We have many words in the English language that have similar, but not exactly the same meanings. Take the word "discriminate", for example. When most people hear this word, they think of treating a person unfairly because of things like culture, physical appearance, etc. However, the word also means "To be able to tell the difference between two similar things". It's often used in this manner when talking about psychology. An example of that would be not thinking that a cat and a dog are the same animal because they both have four legs and a tail. You can discriminate between the two and recognize the features that make a cat a cat, and a dog a dog.

If we tried to use different terms for everything like this, we'd do nothing but create a giant clusterfuck that would make things a major pain in the ass for all of us. Let's not allow theists to hijack words and make our own lives more difficult. If they give you a hard time about it, simply point to the other definitions, like trust.

“Religion was invented when the first con man met the first fool.” - Mark Twain
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