agnostic paradox
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02-06-2013, 11:38 AM
RE: agnostic paradox
(02-06-2013 11:34 AM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  Paradoxes vex me.

If they weren't vexing, they wouldn't be paradoxes. Tongue

"It's a most distressing affliction to have a sentimental heart and a skeptical mind.”
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02-06-2013, 11:38 AM
RE: agnostic paradox
(02-06-2013 10:43 AM)evenheathen Wrote:  S'pose I was hoping for a more in depth examination of the paradox stemming from a non-agnostic stance from you. I would tend to agree with the statement that it is the only logical position.

Maybe I can throw a little gas on this fire...
I think the question of the Agnostic Paradox is confused somewhat by semantics. What I mean by this... is that we really don't have a good word for what we are trying to describe. Just like how the Inuit have 20 something names for the word snow... if we look at this closely, I think we will find we need terms that are more precise.

To me, the term Agnostic implies a spectrum of beliefs. Technically it means "without knowledge", but I think this trips people up. The spectrum runs from people like Thomas Jefferson and Thomas Huxley's view of a "non-spiritual Christianity", to "bad" Christians hoping to repent later, all the way up to Atheists who (for good reasons) stay hidden and/or out of the debate. I don't think it is worth our effort as a community to spend time on this. There are bigger fish to fry.

Do you really want to berate a "bad" Christian into becoming an atheist based on a complicated philosophical argument? I know it seems like a good idea when Christians are using their expert power of getting under our skin... with their fake smiles... and fake love... believe me, I get it.

There is a reason these people put themselves on the fence... if that reason happens to be a smug, "I'm better than you" display, then by all means... slap them off the fence. But I find that those people are rather rare... Most "agnostics" I have run across, (including myself for a time) were just in their last stage of throwing off the religious yoke.

The fact that more people aren't jumping to our side with both feet is a failure on our part. We have to make our side more attractive, and give people a reason to be proud of their non-belief. We also have to let them know that our community can be just as supportive as the religious community can be, because making the jump often means cutting all ties with family and friends.

"As long as the reason of man continues fallible, and he is at liberty to exercise it, different opinions will be formed. As long as the connection subsists between his reason and his self-love, his opinions and his passions will have a reciprocal influence on each other..." -James Madison Federalist #10
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02-06-2013, 11:39 AM
RE: agnostic paradox
(02-06-2013 11:38 AM)Erxomai Wrote:  
(02-06-2013 11:30 AM)evenheathen Wrote:  (you'll have to excuse my ignorance, but LC?)

Oh no. Please tell me you didn't just ask that. Confused

Sorry, but I did. Like I said, excuse the ignorance, unless it's something my already buzzed brain just can't seem to pick up at the moment.

"It's a most distressing affliction to have a sentimental heart and a skeptical mind.”
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02-06-2013, 11:44 AM
RE: agnostic paradox
(02-06-2013 11:38 AM)Madison1751 Wrote:  
(02-06-2013 10:43 AM)evenheathen Wrote:  S'pose I was hoping for a more in depth examination of the paradox stemming from a non-agnostic stance from you. I would tend to agree with the statement that it is the only logical position.

Maybe I can throw a little gas on this fire...

Agreed, thank you. Welcome to the forum! I was kinda lookin' for House of Cantor's take on things though. Stick around a bit, you'll understand. Big Grin

"It's a most distressing affliction to have a sentimental heart and a skeptical mind.”
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02-06-2013, 11:48 AM
RE: agnostic paradox
(02-06-2013 11:39 AM)evenheathen Wrote:  
(02-06-2013 11:38 AM)Erxomai Wrote:  Oh no. Please tell me you didn't just ask that. Confused

Sorry, but I did. Like I said, excuse the ignorance, unless it's something my already buzzed brain just can't seem to pick up at the moment.

Hmm... I don't know if the Little Creep makes for fuzzy, hugs but... I'm sure there's a thread around here somewhere. The subject never bothered me all that much but then, we all have our electric chairs to lounge around in, I suppose. Dodgy

I think in the end, I just feel like I'm a secular person who has a skeptical eye toward any extraordinary claim, carefully examining any extraordinary evidence before jumping to conclusions. ~ Eric ~ My friend ... who figured it out.
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02-06-2013, 11:51 AM
RE: agnostic paradox
This appeared my second day on the forum. I was hooked for life. Big Grin

http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/Thread-The-LC

"All that is necessary for the triumph of Calvinism is that good Atheists do nothing." ~Eric Oh My
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02-06-2013, 12:14 PM
RE: agnostic paradox
(02-06-2013 11:51 AM)Erxomai Wrote:  This appeared my second day on the forum. I was hooked for life. Big Grin

http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/Thread-The-LC

Why prophets are atheists. Either it's "I get it. I love my Gwynnies!" Or it's "whatever that was, I want no part of it." Big Grin

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02-06-2013, 12:24 PM
RE: agnostic paradox
Well right on. I gotta take my little heathen to the park now, or else risk eternal guilt of being a bad father, but this thread looks promising. Be chatting you folks up later. Cool

"It's a most distressing affliction to have a sentimental heart and a skeptical mind.”
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02-06-2013, 12:25 PM
RE: agnostic paradox
(02-06-2013 11:38 AM)evenheathen Wrote:  
(02-06-2013 11:34 AM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  Paradoxes vex me.

If they weren't vexing, they wouldn't be paradoxes. Tongue

Now that's just ironic. Unsure


Wind's in the east, a mist coming in
Like something is brewing and about to begin
Can't put my finger on what lies in store
but I feel what's to happen has happened before...


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02-06-2013, 12:37 PM
RE: agnostic paradox
(02-06-2013 11:38 AM)Madison1751 Wrote:  The fact that more people aren't jumping to our side with both feet is a failure on our part.

That, and TJ. Big Grin

(02-06-2013 11:38 AM)Madison1751 Wrote:  We have to make our side more attractive, and give people a reason to be proud of their non-belief. We also have to let them know that our community can be just as supportive as the religious community can be, because making the jump often means cutting all ties with family and friends.

It is difficult to beautify "lack of belief." Seems more of a doorway than a hallway, atheism. We do well at greeting people at the door, n00bs and their escape from theism, but beyond that, some kind of positive belief system is necessary.

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