altruism
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25-06-2017, 10:19 AM
RE: altruism
Rocket, literally came across this today, but I'll admit I mostly just skimmed it (Nautilus' stuff often exhibits New Yorker's levels of pretentiousness Blush ): Why Your Brain Hates Other People. You might find it interesting. Or not. Rolleyes

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25-06-2017, 10:23 AM
RE: altruism
(25-06-2017 09:13 AM)BlkFnx Wrote:  So i made a comment on a post i made about The Good Book about how i don't trust altruism. I don't want to divert that thread but i think its important to address an objection made. This is an area where i seriously have to criticize atheist. So many atheist i have talked to don't read the origins of various ideas and ask "where did this idea come from and why did this person believe it.". Altruism is a Christian idea,and its a bad Christian idea. To define altruism simply its the belief that the only moral actions are those in which the actor gets no benefit. Not only is this unrealistic it is contrary to human psychology. Even if the only reason someone does something is for a sense of moral superiority.

I only help people for selfish reasons. If its someone i know and care about i help them because i want them to be happy. If it is someone i don't know i help them because one day i might need help. I do not trust altruism, or people who claim to act from selfless reasons.

The origin of altruism was an attempt to provide a secular ethic in the context of comte's belief in the fallen nature of man. So many times we atheist either don't question how theist beliefs shape even atheist scientists ideas.

No it is not a Christian idea. The motif of sacrificing for a bigger picture exists in every religion. Arguing over the details is meaningless.

Our species ability to seek cooperation is evolutionary. We evolved to be social, so we lean to desiring help and that is where the evolutionary empathy kicks in.

I'd only say that "altruism" is a loaded word and a cliche and in that context it is a bad word to use to describe our natural behavior, but it is not unique to Christianity.

Why will a dad or mom, say in China, push their kid out from in front of a bus to save them? For the same reason as if you tried to fuck with an alligator nest the mother would come after you, even if you had a riffle to kill it with.


Humans, even long before any written language would give others food or jump in front of a wild animal attacking a member of the clan, or jump into a fight against a rival clan and die trying to save another member.

"Self sacrifice" are words humans use to describe our behaviors, but the truth is we see the same behaviors in other species as well. Try messing with a herd of elephants in the wild.

But you help people for selfish reasons? No, that does not have to be the case, it can be, but not always.. I might be wrong but I hope I am not smelling Atlas Shrugged in that statement. I hope this doesn't lead to an argument for Ayn Rand economics.

Evolution explains both why we share and why we are selfish. "altruism" is highly subjective in humans because you can ask countless individuals and groups what that "greater good" is and you will come to countess ideas of what that is.

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25-06-2017, 02:12 PM
RE: altruism
An experiment done by Dario Floreano of the Laboratory of Intelligent Systems at the Swiss Federal Institute of Technology, which was highlighted in an issue of Discover years ago, describes how "robot" colonies over 50 generations learned to cheat, look out for their colony, deliberately lie and murder to obtain food and sacrifice themselves to save others belonging to the same colony.

Floreano said he never expected to see altruism in robots.

I haven't searched for this article in many years, but saved it in my stack of "points to make" concerning the supposed moral superiority of believers.

"The Ox is slow, but the Earth is patient."
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25-06-2017, 02:18 PM
RE: altruism
(25-06-2017 09:25 AM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  Even in the animal kingdom, we see the rudiments of altruistic behavior, among social species, from dolphins to monkeys.

Elephants too have displayed altruism.

Smile


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25-06-2017, 02:45 PM
RE: altruism
(25-06-2017 02:12 PM)Jeanne Wrote:  I haven't searched for this article in many years, but saved it in my stack of "points to make" concerning the supposed moral superiority of believers.

To dispel the notion of supposed moral superiority of believers one can simply point to statistics about USA prisoners and curiously small percentage of atheists there.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

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25-06-2017, 02:53 PM
RE: altruism
You don't think, Szuchow, that prisoners in other nations find religion?

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25-06-2017, 02:54 PM
RE: altruism
(25-06-2017 02:18 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  
(25-06-2017 09:25 AM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  Even in the animal kingdom, we see the rudiments of altruistic behavior, among social species, from dolphins to monkeys.

Elephants too have displayed altruism.

Smile

Funny you should mention that, this morning on the news they showed two adult elephants coming to the aid of a baby.



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25-06-2017, 03:01 PM
RE: altruism
(25-06-2017 02:53 PM)Jeanne Wrote:  You don't think, Szuchow, that prisoners in other nations find religion?

As in find it in prison? I doubt that prisoners in any country finds religion, it seems to my admittedly uneducated eye that they claim to find Jesus or whatever to get better treatment or be admitted into some group.

But what I meant is that theist moral superiority is a myth - one just has to look into American incarceration statistics. I suppose it's the same with other countries but I didn't checked this.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

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25-06-2017, 03:03 PM
RE: altruism
"Altruism" is a bullshit cliche. Our species morality is in evolution. It is the same reason this cat in this video did what it did.


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25-06-2017, 03:25 PM
RE: altruism
Look at this, OP, and tell me again, how altruism is human, let alone christian.

That guy could easily crush the bird. Look what happens insteand.




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