altruism
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26-06-2017, 12:09 PM
RE: altruism
Helping someone for a reason as simple and seemingly selfless as not wanting to see them suffer is rooted in empathy as expressed by our mirror neurons, even going so far as to put one's life on the line if the empathy induced pain when watching someone else in pain outweighs the fear of any negative repercussions that might come as a result of providing that assistance. Any act could indeed be rationalized as selfish. Much of this debate, however, could be summed up as semantics.

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26-06-2017, 12:17 PM (This post was last modified: 26-06-2017 01:33 PM by Vera.)
RE: altruism
(26-06-2017 12:09 PM)yakherder Wrote:  Much of this debate, however, could be summed up as semantics.

Correction: one part of it can much more aptly be described as mental onanism.

[Image: mental-masturbation2.png?w=300]

I get it, school's out for the summer, and all those who've read a couple of philosophy books desperately need new victims to peddle their oh-so-deep (think puddle in the middle of Texas in August) knowledge and wisdom to.

But why does it have to be TTA? Much as it might look like it, this ain't the zoo Dodgy

[Image: Capture.jpg]

"E se non passa la tristezza con altri occhi la guarderò."
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26-06-2017, 12:43 PM
RE: altruism
(26-06-2017 12:17 PM)Vera Wrote:  
(26-06-2017 12:09 PM)yakherder Wrote:  Much of this debate, however, could be summed up as semantics.

Correction: one part of it can much more aptly be described as mental onanism.

[Image: mental-masturbation2.png?w=300]

I get it, school's out for the summer, and all those who've read a couple of philosophy books desperately new victims to peddle their oh-so-deep (think puddle in the middle of Texas in August) knowledge and wisdom to.

But why does it have to be TTA? Much as it might like it, this ain't the zoo Dodgy

[Image: Capture.jpg]

I'm unedumacated. I didn't have to read any philosophy books to develop a pessimistic view on the goodness of humanity.

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26-06-2017, 12:46 PM
RE: altruism
(26-06-2017 12:43 PM)yakherder Wrote:  I'm unedumacated. I didn't have to read any philosophy books to develop a pessimistic view on the goodness of humanity.

Misanthropy I can handle/shrug off (hell, sometimes it's hard not to). Being wanked at by adolescents who think they know everything under the sun and expect the world to stop in its tracks, gaping at how enlightened they are - not so much.

I don't want your mental semen all over me, thank you very much Dodgy

"E se non passa la tristezza con altri occhi la guarderò."
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26-06-2017, 01:13 PM
RE: altruism
(25-06-2017 09:13 AM)BlkFnx Wrote:  So i made a comment on a post i made about The Good Book about how i don't trust altruism. I don't want to divert that thread but i think its important to address an objection made. This is an area where i seriously have to criticize atheist. So many atheist i have talked to don't read the origins of various ideas and ask "where did this idea come from and why did this person believe it.". Altruism is a Christian idea,and its a bad Christian idea. To define altruism simply its the belief that the only moral actions are those in which the actor gets no benefit. Not only is this unrealistic it is contrary to human psychology. Even if the only reason someone does something is for a sense of moral superiority.

I only help people for selfish reasons. If its someone i know and care about i help them because i want them to be happy. If it is someone i don't know i help them because one day i might need help. I do not trust altruism, or people who claim to act from selfless reasons.

The origin of altruism was an attempt to provide a secular ethic in the context of comte's belief in the fallen nature of man. So many times we atheist either don't question how theist beliefs shape even atheist scientists ideas.

Was the Good Samaritan a Xian? I think not. Drinking Beverage

Can we just get to the point where everything good is Xian and everything bad is not? It'll save a lot of useless posts.

" Generally speaking, the errors in religion are dangerous; those in philosophy only ridiculous."
David Hume
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26-06-2017, 01:50 PM
RE: altruism
(26-06-2017 01:13 PM)KidCharlemagne1962 Wrote:  Can we just get to the point where everything good is Xian and everything bad is not? It'll save a lot of useless posts.

It's even dumber than this, I'm afraid, Kid. Altruism is bad. Or something. Basically, me - selfish adolescent (judging by the maturity of the posting style), so - whole world selfish, too. Also, Trotsky.

Strangely appropriate name, too, as these posts read like a particularly bad case of the trots Drinking Beverage

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26-06-2017, 02:02 PM
RE: altruism
I'm not interested in the conversation enough to read through all 4 whole pages, but though I might agree that altruism is difficult to rationally define, I wouldn't call it bad. I still appreciate acts that benefit society whatever their motivating factors may be Tongue.

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26-06-2017, 02:29 PM
RE: altruism
Quote:al·tru·ism
ˈaltro͞oˌizəm/Submit
noun
the belief in or practice of disinterested and selfless concern for the well-being of others.

There is nothing about this that has its roots in religion- and especially not Christianity. What an arrogant claim to make- as if altruism didn't exist before Christianity...
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26-06-2017, 04:19 PM
RE: altruism
(25-06-2017 09:13 AM)BlkFnx Wrote:  So i made a comment on a post i made about The Good Book about how i don't trust altruism. I don't want to divert that thread but i think its important to address an objection made. This is an area where i seriously have to criticize atheist. So many atheist i have talked to don't read the origins of various ideas and ask "where did this idea come from and why did this person believe it.". Altruism is a Christian idea,and its a bad Christian idea. To define altruism simply its the belief that the only moral actions are those in which the actor gets no benefit. Not only is this unrealistic it is contrary to human psychology. Even if the only reason someone does something is for a sense of moral superiority.

I only help people for selfish reasons. If its someone i know and care about i help them because i want them to be happy. If it is someone i don't know i help them because one day i might need help. I do not trust altruism, or people who claim to act from selfless reasons.

The origin of altruism was an attempt to provide a secular ethic in the context of comte's belief in the fallen nature of man. So many times we atheist either don't question how theist beliefs shape even atheist scientists ideas.

I've always wondered the W's of life Who What When Where Why. It makes for lazy hours in my mind to be rather fun. As I think to myself to wonder just the little things of life we either don't think about.

I've done this since I was little, staring out the bus window and asking myself question and with what logic and smarts I have to come to a conclusion. I tried not to ask authority people, as half the time when you're 5 and you ask a teacher 'Why' chances are they will lie to you. Especially if you live in the Bible Belt.

But back to Alturism, personally the definition contradicts itself. If moral actions gives you no benefit, then what's the point of doing moral actions? I feel I'm getting into some paradox stuff again. I spent alot of headaches thinking on paradox in my freetime.

As for Atheists not thinking about or questions theists believes and how they are shape. It's often because they repeat the same stuff over and over again. But, I'll admit, I often wonder to myself 'Why do people subscribe to a belief in which they get no benefit, other than the high of thinking they are?'
or 'Who made this religion, and why did they make it? To control the masses? Or just to gain powers where they had none?'
'How can a group of people who preach about love be so cruel and mean?'

Perhaps we'll never know these answers, but we can try to.

"Governments don't want well informed, well educated people capable of critical thinking That is against their interests.
They want obedient workers people who are just smart enough to run the machines and do the paperwork And just dumb enough to passively accept it."

- George Carlin
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26-06-2017, 07:46 PM
RE: altruism
(25-06-2017 09:13 AM)BlkFnx Wrote:  To define altruism simply its the belief that the only moral actions are those in which the actor gets no benefit.
Who besides you defines 'altruism' in this way?

I don 't bring "morality" into it at all. Altruism is a selfless concern for the welfare of others.
Whether such a concern may be "moral" or not is both relative, and irrelevant.

Quote:I do not trust altruism, or people who claim to act from selfless reasons.
Then it would be altruistic of me to not waste my selfless concern on you, as that would clearly make you uneasy.

--
Dr H

"So, I became an anarchist, and all I got was this lousy T-shirt."
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