altruism
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
26-06-2017, 08:08 PM
RE: altruism
(26-06-2017 10:43 AM)BlkFnx Wrote:  1) The concept of Altruism is evil.
Why? Because you assume the concept is designed to be prescriptive?

What if it's merely descriptive?
That is how I first encountered it.
A phenomenon was observed: an individual of a species may sometimes act in ways which do not directly benefit the individual, but instead serve to protect, preserve, or advance the species as a whole by some small incremental portion.
Those observing that phenomenon attempt to explain it; coin a new word for it, as frequently happens in many fields. Then people come along later and appropriate the word to hang their ideologies on.

I don't see any big mystery there, nor does that sequence of events necessarily damn the original concept.

--
Dr H

"So, I became an anarchist, and all I got was this lousy T-shirt."
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 3 users Like Dr H's post
26-06-2017, 08:30 PM
RE: altruism
(26-06-2017 02:29 PM)Emma Wrote:  
Quote:al·tru·ism
ˈaltro͞oˌizəm/Submit
noun
the belief in or practice of disinterested and selfless concern for the well-being of others.

There is nothing about this that has its roots in religion- and especially not Christianity. What an arrogant claim to make- as if altruism didn't exist before Christianity...
Well, I understand his insistence on Comte, since Comte is thought to have originated the term "altruism" in the mid-19th century. And Comte did set out to create a "religion of humanity", although I don't think that can be construed into a Christian foundation for altruism, at least not on Comte's part.

But the concept of altruism certainly predates the coinage of the term, by a number of centuries. Selflessness is a theme in Plato, and the Buddha discoursed on selfless compassion a good 400 years before there was such a thing as "Christianity".

--
Dr H

"So, I became an anarchist, and all I got was this lousy T-shirt."
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Dr H's post
27-06-2017, 01:03 AM
RE: altruism
(26-06-2017 08:30 PM)Dr H Wrote:  
(26-06-2017 02:29 PM)Emma Wrote:  There is nothing about this that has its roots in religion- and especially not Christianity. What an arrogant claim to make- as if altruism didn't exist before Christianity...
Well, I understand his insistence on Comte, since Comte is thought to have originated the term "altruism" in the mid-19th century. And Comte did set out to create a "religion of humanity", although I don't think that can be construed into a Christian foundation for altruism, at least not on Comte's part.

For me it looks more like obsession than insistence but that's beside the point.

I don't understand it - fact that Comte coined the term does not mean that his take is best. It's merely one definition among many chosen I suspect to push particular agenda.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Szuchow's post
27-06-2017, 01:36 AM
RE: altruism
(27-06-2017 01:03 AM)Szuchow Wrote:  
(26-06-2017 08:30 PM)Dr H Wrote:  Well, I understand his insistence on Comte, since Comte is thought to have originated the term "altruism" in the mid-19th century. And Comte did set out to create a "religion of humanity", although I don't think that can be construed into a Christian foundation for altruism, at least not on Comte's part.

For me it looks more like obsession than insistence but that's beside the point.

I don't understand it - fact that Comte coined the term does not mean that his take is best. It's merely one definition among many chosen I suspect to push particular agenda.

One thing I've noticed about these types, they all seem to myopically cling to one ideal, and consider those who have broadened opinions just dead wrong. They'll beat their poor dead horse point until....

Well, it just never ends. Dodgy


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 3 users Like Momsurroundedbyboys's post
27-06-2017, 02:17 AM
RE: altruism
(26-06-2017 08:30 PM)Dr H Wrote:  But the concept of altruism certainly predates the coinage of the term, by a number of centuries. Selflessness is a theme in Plato, and the Buddha discoursed on selfless compassion a good 400 years before there was such a thing as "Christianity".

Humanity only has a word for it. But selflessness or morality is something every social species has and always had. It's one of the foundations that make living together possible. Without rules and every member looking out for other members of the group it would be chaos. That even applies to ants.

[Image: Labrador%20and%20Title.jpg]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like abaris's post
27-06-2017, 05:27 AM
RE: altruism
(27-06-2017 02:17 AM)abaris Wrote:  
(26-06-2017 08:30 PM)Dr H Wrote:  But the concept of altruism certainly predates the coinage of the term, by a number of centuries. Selflessness is a theme in Plato, and the Buddha discoursed on selfless compassion a good 400 years before there was such a thing as "Christianity".

Humanity only has a word for it. But selflessness or morality is something every social species has and always had. It's one of the foundations that make living together possible. Without rules and every member looking out for other members of the group it would be chaos. That even applies to ants.

The problem with "morality" is that it is not viewed in a natural evolutionary sense. In a natural sense yes, I agree, it has always been in us. But, "morality" as most humans use it, is based on artificial labels such as religion, politics, nationality and economic views.

But the basics have always been in us. Humans don't really think long term or globally, we have a collective majority tendency to think short term and value that which we are familiar with and get introduced at birth with.

In my 50 years of life, watching global news, I see stories all over the world where people will help victims of natural and man made disasters, even bombings and mass shootings.

Most humans don't see, or ignore that our species was around long before any written language or nation. But we've always had the evolutionary drive to protect our young, we've always displayed group support and group rivalry.

Poetry by Brian37(poems by an atheist) Also on Facebook as BrianJames Rational Poet and Twitter Brianrrs37
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 4 users Like Brian37's post
27-06-2017, 07:49 AM
RE: altruism
(27-06-2017 05:27 AM)Brian37 Wrote:  
(27-06-2017 02:17 AM)abaris Wrote:  Humanity only has a word for it. But selflessness or morality is something every social species has and always had. It's one of the foundations that make living together possible. Without rules and every member looking out for other members of the group it would be chaos. That even applies to ants.

The problem with "morality" is that it is not viewed in a natural evolutionary sense. In a natural sense yes, I agree, it has always been in us. But, "morality" as most humans use it, is based on artificial labels such as religion, politics, nationality and economic views.

But the basics have always been in us. Humans don't really think long term or globally, we have a collective majority tendency to think short term and value that which we are familiar with and get introduced at birth with.

In my 50 years of life, watching global news, I see stories all over the world where people will help victims of natural and man made disasters, even bombings and mass shootings.

Most humans don't see, or ignore that our species was around long before any written language or nation. But we've always had the evolutionary drive to protect our young, we've always displayed group support and group rivalry.

Exactly- this is what I meant when I said that altruism has existed long before Christianity. It doesn't matter when the current word we use to describe the concept was first introduced. We, as a social species, do have an evolutionary benefit to helping others of our species- even when it doesn't benefit us directly.

This behavior wasn't something introduced into humanity with Christianity. At best a theist could argue that their god instilled this behavior in its creation, but saying that one particular religion started it is a claim requiring strong supporting evidence.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 3 users Like Emma's post
28-06-2017, 08:37 PM
RE: altruism
(27-06-2017 01:03 AM)Szuchow Wrote:  For me it looks more like obsession than insistence but that's beside the point.

I don't understand it - fact that Comte coined the term does not mean that his take is best. It's merely one definition among many chosen I suspect to push particular agenda.

You could be right.
I was just putting in my 2¢ on why I thought he kept referencing Comte.

--
Dr H

"So, I became an anarchist, and all I got was this lousy T-shirt."
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
01-07-2017, 10:43 AM
RE: altruism
(26-06-2017 11:57 AM)Vera Wrote:  
(26-06-2017 05:48 AM)BlkFnx Wrote:  I challenge you to actually think

DITTO.

Tip: Pulling head out of ass would help. Immensely.

Quote:about what I'm prosing rather than just attacking it.

So, enlighten me, what are you prosing?

The rest of it is such ignorant, arrogant bunk, I won't waste even a millisecond more than I already did reading it.

You've got to be this tall smart to talk to me and you ain't nowhere near the minimum requirements, cupcake Drinking Beverage

Vera id like to thank both you and Szuchow for the down checks.

Next I'd like you to define your terms. I am repeatedly being told that I am wrong. I have defined my term. The definition of Altruism which I have provided makes it clear that Altrusim is evil. Instead of just saying "That's not the definition" give me an alternative, who knows perhaps I may agree with you. *If you use the term selfless in your definition of Altruism I will also need you to define this terms as well.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
01-07-2017, 10:44 AM
RE: altruism
(28-06-2017 08:37 PM)Dr H Wrote:  
(27-06-2017 01:03 AM)Szuchow Wrote:  For me it looks more like obsession than insistence but that's beside the point.

I don't understand it - fact that Comte coined the term does not mean that his take is best. It's merely one definition among many chosen I suspect to push particular agenda.

How do you define Altruism?
If you use the word selfless in that definition how do you define selfless?

You could be right.
I was just putting in my 2¢ on why I thought he kept referencing Comte.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: