an alternative to an 'atheist bible'
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14-03-2011, 08:59 PM (This post was last modified: 14-03-2011 09:13 PM by dredmal.)
an alternative to an 'atheist bible'
i'm fairly sure what i'm looking for has probably already been created and is publicly available but just in case...

i frequently engage myself into religious conversation/debate. i also am frequently told or asked some bullshit comment or question that pretty much shuts me up and forces me to end the conversation with something along the lines of: "i wish i could convince you to research the subject, lets just talk about something else"

most of the time when this happens, by the time i finish smoking my next cigarette alone, i think of what i should have said and wish i could have had that idea during the conversation. by this time it's too late, and even if i bring the point up i'm likely to have the same problem again very quickly, making me look wrong, ignorant or simply like i'm trying too hard.

i would like to have some sort of quick reference guide to religious debate. something very compact, concise and very easy to use.

to clarify what i mean i would like to give an example:

a long time internet gamer friend of mine recently disclosed that he is a christian (after lying about it for a long time now) and we had a debate about it. the conversation ended with him stating that the bible is was written in a different time period and he considers it a set of guidelines even if some of those guidelines are outdated.

sadly i could not come up with the proper response to that statement fast enough to continue the argument and i was forced to let him off the hook.

i am not educated enough on the subject to hold my own versus every single retarded brainwashed thought and i do not feel like dedicating or want to dedicate the time it would take to be 'an atheist preacher'

I simply want a cheat sheet.
does it exist already? if not, can we make one easily accessible from inside this forum? and if we were to make one, i think discussion would be needed to maximize the format of the cheat sheet to help provide lightning fast rebuttal. even if there is one, is it good enough? can we make a better one?

my last post had many responses and i was very happy with the results even though it was a rather pointless post. this one means alot to me and i hope it gets the same level of attention.

time to google this subject and see if i wasted my time typing.

update: a quick lazy search on google for 'atheist cheat sheet' did not seem to find what i was looking for but i did find the opposite here very high in the search results

updated update: as soon as i reloaded my web browser this thread was directly below it, this post is very much the same as that post. but this one is looking to end the results of what happens in those situations.

even the smartest man in the world is an idiot
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14-03-2011, 10:19 PM
RE: an alternative to an 'atheist bible'
Later on when I have the time I'll give you a good amount of stuff. Quoting is generally good so probably a lot of George Carlin and such. I don't know of a good reference yet but the similar post which you have commented in is probably going to be a good start. The reason we don't generally have a cheat sheet is because when the response to your cheat sheet answer is why you don't have it. Still nice to have one so I'm sure that people will help.

I'm not a non believer, I believe in the possibility of anything. I just don't let the actuality of something be determined by a 3rd party.
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14-03-2011, 10:43 PM
RE: an alternative to an 'atheist bible'
i'd like to stray away from actual quotes and lean more towards just general replies. granted i guess they can be the same thing. if the quote is simple and gets the point across that would be good to me. but as for actual text in front of me to reference i would want a minimalistic approach in order to provide the general idea of my response without time being wasted reading extra words that would slow me down.

obviously if someone is being quoted they deserve credit, and there could be a reference section at the end for that, as well as a section dedicated to deeper input on each subject.

also it is pretty obvious that some subjects have multiple good responses, this can be accommodated easily as well

i feel as if i sound like i know nothing of atheism or theism and simply want a cure all but this is not true. my mind is simply cloudy and tired and i just need a tiny nudge in the right direction most of the time to get me rolling again.

i do not know if this holds true for other people but most of the time when i get stuck in a debate and can't find the right thing to say, it's actually something i've said or heard before but it's just buried deep in the heaps of information on the subject in my mind and i can't pull it out fast enough. i'm fairly sure emotion plays a large roll in the process as well, most of the time i've determined the person is retarded and i get so frustrated i simply can't think clearly.

even the smartest man in the world is an idiot
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15-03-2011, 01:24 AM
RE: an alternative to an 'atheist bible'
Emotion does play a large part in slowing down memory retrieval. So does frustration and also lack of confidence. Debating is a skill that must be learned. If he who is right always wins then it would be easy, be sure you are right and you will always win, or at least draw if the other person is also right. But unfotunately that is not how it works. The winner is usually the one who shows the most confidence, isn't easily frustrated and uses emotion to his advantage. Ther is no way around it. You need to boost your debating skills to the level of your opponents, or greater. Take a few hits and learn from them. What doesn't kill you will make you stronger.

When I find myself in times of trouble, Richard Dawkins comes to me, speaking words of reason, now I see, now I see.
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15-03-2011, 05:30 AM
RE: an alternative to an 'atheist bible'
The reason I mentioned quotes is due to religious believers thinking quoting the bible is better than mentioning their own thoughts. A large portion of people are more interested in quotes than actual statements because they see them as more knowledgeable, even though they may come from someone long dead who was less knowledgeable about the world. I have work but we'll get this thing eventually meted out.

I'm not a non believer, I believe in the possibility of anything. I just don't let the actuality of something be determined by a 3rd party.
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15-03-2011, 05:40 AM
RE: an alternative to an 'atheist bible'
It does help by starting to KNOW that you won't convince him. Be realistic: almost NO theist will have an instant deconversion. When you are cornered on your knowledge, politely start asking open questions. Preferably personal viewpoints. In many cases theists will start shooting in their own foot.

Observer

Agnostic atheist
Secular humanist
Emotional rationalist
Disclaimer: Don’t mix the personal opinion above with the absolute and objective truth. Remember to think for yourself. Thank you.
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15-03-2011, 08:07 AM
RE: an alternative to an 'atheist bible'
Besides, if it's the truth you're after, I think there is no shame in answering "that's interesting, I'll think about that" to a question you don't know an answer to.

Observer

Agnostic atheist
Secular humanist
Emotional rationalist
Disclaimer: Don’t mix the personal opinion above with the absolute and objective truth. Remember to think for yourself. Thank you.
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15-03-2011, 09:07 PM
 
RE: an alternative to an 'atheist bible'
(14-03-2011 08:59 PM)dredmal Wrote:  i would like to have some sort of quick reference guide to religious debate. something very compact, concise and very easy to use.


Thats kind of the focal point of my youtube channel:
http://www.youtube.com/user/TheIslammiracle

Although, its focused on Islam and quick reference refutations to individual claims.
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