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04-06-2014, 04:01 AM
RE: and on to another subject
(03-06-2014 06:15 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  The problem with feminism is that they're all a bunch of stupid bitches.

It's not about mens rights or females rights, it should be about equal rights for either gender.

Feminism is stupid because it's beyond the point of equality and is going for total dominance. Mens rights has a better argument IMO but is still stupid depending on the point being made.
ie: Women are still favored in custody cases.
ie2: 40% of domestic abuse is towards males.

On the domestic abuse thing, there's a culture of "you're a tough man, you should be able to defend yourself stop being a pussy". At least when the women is the one being abused it is taken seriously.
Yes that is success for women, it should be taken seriously, but how is that equal rights for equal genders?

There's a lot of employment law regarding women too. Much like the race thing where a certain percentage must be women. How is this equal rights for equal genders? The best person should get the job no matter the gender.


The issue regarding mens rights is not some crude "all women should be in the kitchen making me a sandwich", it's in response to the feminism movement which has gone full retard. It's about equal rights, which the feminism movement isn't about.

The problem with those who criticize feminism is that they can't grasp the simple fact that feminism appeared when women were treated like objects. Literally. The actual definition of feminism is "The advocacy of women’s rights on the ground of the equality of the sexes."

Criticizing feminism based on today's extremist feminists is a strawman at best.

If you listened to just two minutes of what that guy was saying, you'd realize that this has nothing to do with "equal rights". It's all about "women are selfish and they can't love you, so don't have relationships".

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04-06-2014, 04:11 AM
RE: and on to another subject
(04-06-2014 04:01 AM)undergroundp Wrote:  
(03-06-2014 06:15 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  The problem with feminism is that they're all a bunch of stupid bitches.

It's not about mens rights or females rights, it should be about equal rights for either gender.

Feminism is stupid because it's beyond the point of equality and is going for total dominance. Mens rights has a better argument IMO but is still stupid depending on the point being made.
ie: Women are still favored in custody cases.
ie2: 40% of domestic abuse is towards males.

On the domestic abuse thing, there's a culture of "you're a tough man, you should be able to defend yourself stop being a pussy". At least when the women is the one being abused it is taken seriously.
Yes that is success for women, it should be taken seriously, but how is that equal rights for equal genders?

There's a lot of employment law regarding women too. Much like the race thing where a certain percentage must be women. How is this equal rights for equal genders? The best person should get the job no matter the gender.


The issue regarding mens rights is not some crude "all women should be in the kitchen making me a sandwich", it's in response to the feminism movement which has gone full retard. It's about equal rights, which the feminism movement isn't about.

The problem with those who criticize feminism is that they can't grasp the simple fact that feminism appeared when women were treated like objects. Literally. The actual definition of feminism is "The advocacy of women’s rights on the ground of the equality of the sexes."

Criticizing feminism based on today's extremist feminists is a strawman at best.

If you listened to just two minutes of what that guy was saying, you'd realize that this has nothing to do with "equal rights". It's all about "women are selfish and they can't love you, so don't have relationships".

It's irrelevant what it was founded on 100+ years ago in context of what it is today.
Back than and right now are two very different things. And right now they're all a bunch of bitches.

Quote:If you listened to just two minutes of what that guy was saying, you'd realize that this has nothing to do with "equal rights". It's all about "women are selfish and they can't love you, so don't have relationships"

I didn't because tl;dr but I thought it was pretty clear that I was pro-equal rights, not pro-men/women superiority.
Feminism seems to be a lot about female superiority and so mens movement tends to be more about dialing that back to equal rights.
If you keep going till you're going for male superiority than I obviously am not in favor of that either.

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04-06-2014, 04:22 AM
RE: and on to another subject
I get turned down for jobs because I am a woman even though I have not had children, won't have them and am often more highly qualified and competent then the men that do actually get hired.

I also get paid less because I do not have the luxury of holding out for more money. I've seen interesting work given to a man instead of me even though he didn't know what he was doing and I had proven expertise in the subject.

I am judged less capable because I am a woman regardless of what it says on my CV or the publications I have (references below).

Feminism is and always will be about equal rights for everyone regardless of their gender. There is still a net imbalance against women though, more so in some countries than others. That doesn't mean to say that there isn't prejudice against men. We'll all benefit from equal rights. The name feminism came about because historically women have had it worse off than men.



http://www.pnas.org/content/109/41/16474.long

Quote:In a randomized double-blind study (n = 127), science faculty from research-intensive universities rated the application materials of a student—who was randomly assigned either a male or female name—for a laboratory manager position. Faculty participants rated the male applicant as significantly more competent and hireable than the (identical) female applicant. These participants also selected a higher starting salary and offered more career mentoring to the male applicant.

http://www.the-scientist.com/?articles.v...ture-PIs-/

Quote:The researchers found that, given the same publication record and all else being equal, male authors are more likely to become PIs than their female counterparts.
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04-06-2014, 04:50 AM
RE: and on to another subject
Feminism = Gender Equality

That's all it really is.

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04-06-2014, 04:51 AM
RE: and on to another subject
Quote:I get turned down for jobs because I am a woman

Is it because you're a women or is it "I got turned down, oh it must be because I'm a women", because the later is the bitch thing I'm talking about.
There are many factors taken into account during a job interview, not just "I have the right qualifications, this job is 100% going to be mine and if it's not it's because I'm a women or black or gay or whatever".

People put to much focus on qualifications and not enough on the human aspect of the interview. Do they like me? Do I come across as someone they would like to hire? etc..
If they didn't want to hire a female they wouldn't have gotten you in for an interview.

The point being that you saying you didn't get hired because you're a female and you actually not getting hired because you're a female are two different things.

Quote:I also get paid less because I do not have the luxury of holding out for more money.

This is not gender specific. If you're unemployed there's a good chance you need a job and can't afford to hold out for a better paying one...
If someone offered me a minimum wage job right now I'd take it because I need the money.

Quote:I've seen interesting work given to a man instead of me even though he didn't know what he was doing and I had proven expertise in the subject.

Again, not gender specific. I'm sure everyone here can relate to this irregardless of gender.

Quote:I am judged less capable because I am a woman regardless of what it says on my CV or the publications I have (references below).

Subtle preference. I'd also be curious to see how women favor women or men. I think a women would favor a women more than what a man would favor a man.

Quote:Feminism is and always will be about equal rights for everyone regardless of their gender.

No it's not. Firstly there's the name "fem"inism.
Yet when "male rights" is uttered it's misogynist... it's called "mens rights" in response to "fem"inism.

Quote:There is still a net imbalance against women though, more so in some countries than others.

There is most certainly many many countries where womens rights is a huge issue. Muslim countries I'm looking at you. I'm not taking away from the need of these women to gain equal rights, I agree we should be fighting for them.
BUT in western countries it's ridiculous. It's not that female aren't discriminated against, what's ridiculous is the belief that ONLY women are discriminated against.
This is my issue with feminism, it should be able equal, not "fem"inism.

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04-06-2014, 05:11 AM
RE: and on to another subject
Damn, I almost feel like giving Muffsy a hug... he's seeing this picture pretty clearly.

I'm just a bit more than tired of men being portrayed as bumbling idiots by women that come across with a superior bullshit attitude.

The just say "yes dear" crap is getting old and seems to be pontificated by most women, not to mention TV shows that relentlessly hammer the men into the ground.

Then again I may just be getting old and not feeling like playing games.

I may be a misanthropist, but hardly a misogynist. Tho most of the grief caused out there seems to be taken over the top by women now a days.

If bullshit were music some people would be a brass band.
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04-06-2014, 05:12 AM
RE: and on to another subject
I have to say that I enjoyed both videos immensely.

Later, when I have more time, I'll watch them again with sound.

Drinking Beverage

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04-06-2014, 05:27 AM (This post was last modified: 04-06-2014 05:33 AM by Mathilda.)
RE: and on to another subject
(04-06-2014 04:51 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  
Quote:I get turned down for jobs because I am a woman

Is it because you're a women or is it "I got turned down, oh it must be because I'm a women", because the later is the bitch thing I'm talking about.

No it's because I am a woman. When I first started my career there wasn't a problem. The problem started when I reached child bearing age and hit the glass ceiling. I had many interviews which went perfectly well. There wasn't anything I could have done better. The interviewers wanted to hire me and I still got turned down. The bosses had no intention of hiring me and it was a waste of my time even turning up. That was in the UK which has crazy maternity leave laws.

In Germany I got turned down for a job for pathetic reasons. This was a job where I had already proven myself to them, performed better than average and had only been hired the first time because there was no one else wanting to accept their low wage. When I left the first time because the contract ran out I had made sure not to burn any bridges and had a good reference from my line manager. This is an English speaking organisation that only had 3 other women software engineers in it out of hundreds of men when I was there. It's not like they were exactly competent in that organisation either. In Germany I only get hired when there are no other choices.

Of course I have considered all the same sort of questions that you are asking and after a while the weight of evidence is that I am discriminated against because I am a woman.

Automatically assuming that I am wrong makes you part of the problem by excusing and reinforcing sexist practice and dismissing the concerns of people afflicted by it.

Sometimes I've managed to get interviews because they assumed I was male and expressed surprise when I turned up.


(04-06-2014 04:51 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  
Quote:I also get paid less because I do not have the luxury of holding out for more money.

This is not gender specific. If you're unemployed there's a good chance you need a job and can't afford to hold out for a better paying one...
If someone offered me a minimum wage job right now I'd take it because I need the money.

But if I don't get given the job unless I am the only available choice then it is less likely that I am able to get two separate companies to compete for me by raising their offers. This has only happened to me once and when it did my wage went up by 50%. I can now tell potential employers what my previous wage was and expect them to match it or improve it.


(04-06-2014 04:51 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  
Quote:I've seen interesting work given to a man instead of me even though he didn't know what he was doing and I had proven expertise in the subject.

Again, not gender specific. I'm sure everyone here can relate to this irregardless of gender.

The boss was a Muslim from Egypt who paid far more attention to the men.

The last time I worked in academia there was a male academic there who only ever hired and talked to other men. He was also a Muslim. He advertised for a post that I was ideal for but I didn't even bother applying because I assumed that it was a waste of time. There was no way he was going to hire a woman. No one applied for it. The head of the department asked why I hadn't applied so when the post was advertised again I put in for it. The job was given to a man even though they were legally obliged to give the job to me because I was already in their employment and would otherwise be made redundant. I collected my redundancy money and moved to Germany.


(04-06-2014 04:51 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  
Quote:I am judged less capable because I am a woman regardless of what it says on my CV or the publications I have (references below).

Subtle preference. I'd also be curious to see how women favor women or men. I think a women would favor a women more than what a man would favor a man.

If you read those links the women were also just as guilty as favouring male candidates. This is because candidates are compared to what is already known to work well. If all your employers are male then it becomes harder to imagine a female candidate as being capable.

Check out this link for example:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/2014/...s/9735713/


(04-06-2014 04:51 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  
Quote:Feminism is and always will be about equal rights for everyone regardless of their gender.

No it's not. Firstly there's the name "fem"inism.
Yet when "male rights" is uttered it's misogynist... it's called "mens rights" in response to "fem"inism.

Strawman.


(04-06-2014 04:51 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  BUT in western countries it's ridiculous. It's not that female aren't discriminated against, what's ridiculous is the belief that ONLY women are discriminated against.
This is my issue with feminism, it should be able equal, not "fem"inism.

I spoke to a transsexual man once who became a feminist once he started living full time as a man. He realised how much easier it was for men.
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04-06-2014, 05:30 AM
RE: and on to another subject
(04-06-2014 05:11 AM)War Horse Wrote:  Damn, I almost feel like giving Muffsy a hug... he's seeing this picture pretty clearly.

I'm just a bit more than tired of men being portrayed as bumbling idiots by women that come across with a superior bullshit attitude.

The just say "yes dear" crap is getting old and seems to be pontificated by most women, not to mention TV shows that relentlessly hammer the men into the ground.

Then again I may just be getting old and not feeling like playing games.

I may be a misanthropist, but hardly a misogynist. Tho most of the grief caused out there seems to be taken over the top by women now a days.

I'm just a bit more than tired of women being portrayed as selfish sluts by men that come across with a superior bullshit attitude.

The just say "yes dear" crap is getting old and seems to be pontificated by most men, not to mention TV shows that relentlessly hammer the women into the ground.

Most of the grief caused out there seems to be taken over the top by men now a days.

...See? It's not that hard. Women are not the bad guys. Men are not the bad guys. It's just a fucked up world full of assholes, men and women.

Blaming one of the two or presenting one of the two as worse has no basis other than your own gender-related biases.

If you are disappointed in women, you obviously haven't met the right ones.

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-Guybrush Threepwood-
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04-06-2014, 05:44 AM
RE: and on to another subject
(04-06-2014 05:30 AM)undergroundp Wrote:  If you are disappointed in women, you obviously haven't met the right ones.

Oh, of course "obviously".

How presumptuous and arrogant of a statement that was undergroundp, at 57 yo I must not have gotten around to many women then, and by no means could have ever been exposed to the "right" one. Dodgy

So tell me, what would this "right" one behave like ?

If bullshit were music some people would be a brass band.
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