anti-atheist multiverse parody -please review
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17-07-2017, 05:42 AM
anti-atheist multiverse parody -please review
Hi,

while I am an agnostic and live together with a lovely atheist I frankly do not get along with the more extreme styles of atheism and that atheist that just can not resist the adhominem attack.

As I am really annoyed now I have created a science parody about the multiverse. I put it here for quritique but remember in the end it s a parody not a scientific undertaking.

The simplest multiverse

The simplest multiverse is a variation of the multiverse theory. In ackordance with Ockhams razor I stripped everything out of the theory that is not really necessary to explain the universe we see. The first thing which had to go where all known natural laws - because you have to addmitt it - they convolute the thing a bit.

I instead replaced them with two meta rules:

1. There are infinite universes with infinite branching universes and hence infinite reality lines.

2. There is a random generator that creates and destroys matter at random places in all of this infinite universes.

In all of this infinite universes the random generator will create by pure chance universes that look like universes that have sprung from natural law - although they are vastly outnumbered by universes which look like a big soup of matter.

How does a movement look in such a universe if there is for example no law of gravity?

A falling object would not be a falling object - it would be an object that is destroyed and a bit lower recreated by chance again and again - you just need to be all the time in the right reality lines to misinterprete this as a movement.

There are no fields by the way. We never measured them directly, we only measured their interaction with matter.

Now as all of this is mathematically much simpler to describe than current theories of the universe according to Ockhams razor it is the simpler and hence more likely theory of how our universe comes about.

As I figured out so fare you now have three options what to do:

1. In honour of Ockham you accept the simplest universe theory as the leading t.o.e.Weeping

2. You forget about Ockhams razor. This would open the discussion again for other explanations that are to complex to but into simple equations such as god.

3. You safe Ockhams razor but throw out the multiverse. Remember that this re-opens the discussion about the fine tuning of the universe again as the multiverse is the by fare best argument against it.

This is a peace of art Smile and hence coyprighted.
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17-07-2017, 05:52 AM
RE: anti-atheist multiverse parody -please review
(17-07-2017 05:42 AM)LaraLara Wrote:  Hi,

while I am an agnostic and live together with a lovely atheist I frankly do not get along with the more extreme styles of atheism and that atheist that just can not resist the adhominem attack.

What are these "more extreme styles of atheism"?

Quote:As I am really annoyed now I have created a science parody about the multiverse.

What atheism has to do with multiverse?

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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17-07-2017, 06:05 AM
RE: anti-atheist multiverse parody -please review
(17-07-2017 05:52 AM)Szuchow Wrote:  What are these "more extreme styles of atheism"?

What atheism has to do with multiverse?

Missionary atheism versus atheism as a simple private believe.

As explained in the parody the multiverse is usually used as argument against a fine tuning of the universe for complex strcuctures. I think I have even Hitchens seen doing this line of argument. If there are many universes fine tuning could just be a form of random luck that applies to our universe but not the others.
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17-07-2017, 06:12 AM
RE: anti-atheist multiverse parody -please review
(17-07-2017 06:05 AM)LaraLara Wrote:  
(17-07-2017 05:52 AM)Szuchow Wrote:  What are these "more extreme styles of atheism"?

What atheism has to do with multiverse?

Missionary atheism versus atheism as a simple private believe.

No such thing as missionary atheism. At most there are atheists who proselytize.

Quote:As explained in the parody the multiverse is usually used as argument against a fine tuning of the universe for complex strcuctures.

Usually? Never I saw such though that does not mean much.

Quote:I think I have even Hitchens seen doing this line of argument. If there are many universes fine tuning could just be a form of random luck that applies to our universe but not the others.

To object to fine tuning one does not need to mention multiverse and from what little I care to look multiverse isn't brought often if at all. This we should not be surprised or befuddled that the universe is adapted to our needs, since we evolved within the universe and its parameters is enough.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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17-07-2017, 06:17 AM
RE: anti-atheist multiverse parody -please review
I'm annoyed with atheists so I'm going to make a parody of something that is not anything to do with atheism. Rolleyes Good luck with that, champ Thumbsup

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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17-07-2017, 06:32 AM
RE: anti-atheist multiverse parody -please review
I answer you both:

if you think Ockhams Razor has nothing to do with atheism you run a bit short in the philsophy and history of atheism.

I have seen the multiverse argument very often - it gets the most space in wikipedia on the issue of fine tuning and it is the ONLY argument against fine tuning that convinced me. We will apparently not get anywhere in this discussion if we do not make a statistic on how often it is really used and by whom.
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17-07-2017, 06:37 AM
RE: anti-atheist multiverse parody -please review
(17-07-2017 06:32 AM)LaraLara Wrote:  I answer you both:

if you think Ockhams Razor has nothing to do with atheism you run a bit short in the philsophy and history of atheism.
Ockham's razor has plenty to do with science. Your parody... has what exactly to do with atheism? You explicitly said you made it of this multiverse theory which is at most tangentially related to the topic of atheism.

Quote:I have seen the multiverse argument very often - it gets the most space in wikipedia on the issue of fine tuning and it is the ONLY argument against fine tuning that convinced me. We will apparently not get anywhere in this discussion if we do not make a statistic on how often it is really used and by whom.
Multiverse is a theory. Not particularly convincing either IMO. Well done that you got convinced by it. Have a gold star.

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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17-07-2017, 06:40 AM
RE: anti-atheist multiverse parody -please review
(17-07-2017 06:32 AM)LaraLara Wrote:  I answer you both:

if you think Ockhams Razor has nothing to do with atheism you run a bit short in the philsophy and history of atheism.

I mentioned Occam Razor or you have problems with reading comprehension?

Quote:I have seen the multiverse argument very often - it gets the most space in wikipedia on the issue of fine tuning and it is the ONLY argument against fine tuning that convinced me. We will apparently not get anywhere in this discussion if we do not make a statistic on how often it is really used and by whom.

There is no discussion. I'm just amazed that being angry at something called extreme styles of atheism caused you to write what you call parody about multiverse.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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17-07-2017, 06:57 AM
RE: anti-atheist multiverse parody -please review
Szuchow

when I was talking about Ockhams razor, I replied the other participant of the discussion which I announced with "I answer you both". Sorry that this was misunderstandable.

Only if there is still a misunderstanding about Ockham: Ockhams razor is a main component of science theory and science is a main component of atheism so that is the connection between atheism and making fun of Ockhams razor.

I now did a web research and I get over 35 000 million hits of the combination between "Fine tuning" and multiverse. Now some of this will come from theist but all?

The only thing that I have learned from the discussion so fare is that I next time need to cite the famous atheists that have used this arguments so that it is not so easy to back out. I find this discussion not very honest and I would prefere it if you stay more relaxed although in the end I have no say on it.
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17-07-2017, 07:05 AM
RE: anti-atheist multiverse parody -please review
(17-07-2017 06:57 AM)LaraLara Wrote:  Only if there is still a misunderstanding about Ockham: Ockhams razor is a main component of science theory and science is a main component of atheism so that is the connection between atheism and making fun of Ockhams razor.

Since when science is main component of atheism?

Quote:I now did a web research and I get over 35 000 million hits of the combination between "Fine tuning" and multiverse. Now some of this will come from theist but all?

So? I said that I never saw multiverse being used to counter fine tuning and that multiverse isn't needed to counter fine tuning not that it isn't used. I even mentioned that my experience does not mean much so you can hide you 35 000 million hits where sun doesn't shine.

Quote:The only thing that I have learned from the discussion so fare is that I next time need to cite the famous atheists that have used this arguments so that it is not so easy to back out.

I learned that you can't grasp what I write so you try to twist it to your needs. See above.

Quote:I find this discussion not very honest and I would prefere it if you stay more relaxed although in the end I have no say on it.

Perhaps it is your own dishonesty that you're noticing?

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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