anti-atheist multiverse parody -please review
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17-07-2017, 07:05 AM
RE: anti-atheist multiverse parody -please review
(17-07-2017 06:40 AM)Szuchow Wrote:  There is no discussion. I'm just amazed that being angry at something called extreme styles of atheism caused you to write what you call parody about multiverse.

I was so evil to mention in front of an atheist that science has limits (not to mention that it is full of fraud which I haved witnessed first hand). This brought me the worst ad hominem attack of my life. If such guys plan to turn science in a kind of new religion I will do my very best to prevent that - and my very best is to make fun of it.

Now that you focused so much on my motivation I would like it you to focus on the text itself because I did not ask of a review of me but of the text.
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17-07-2017, 07:30 AM (This post was last modified: 18-07-2017 02:23 AM by DLJ.)
RE: anti-atheist multiverse parody -please review
(17-07-2017 07:05 AM)Szuchow Wrote:  Since when science is main component of atheism?

Since scientific scepticism has overtaken the atheist movement shying people like me away. You should stop throwing stones at the messanger and instead think about why such messages are coming in.

You may make fun of my 35 000 million hits but I at least make an attempt at quantification - as when it comes to subjective experriences mine is as good as yours.

That you believe that are other good arguments against fine tuning does not interest me either until you start to explain them.

That would be a good start to get back to the real theme of the post because I see a red hearing problem here.
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17-07-2017, 07:31 AM (This post was last modified: 17-07-2017 07:35 AM by Robvalue.)
RE: anti-atheist multiverse parody -please review
Atheists are people who lack belief in god, that's it. I haven't seen any evidence of atheist missionaries, that implies going out to an area and trying to inflitrate it with your belief system (often under the guise of helping them in some way). Of course some atheists will be more vocal than others, and some will be assholes. That's up to them and has nothing to do with atheism.

Being scientifically or sceptically minded can be causes of atheism, but they are not part of atheism. One can be an atheist for any reason. If you want to tackle sceptics, then why not just say sceptics? Or say advocates of science?

The first thing any advocate of science will tell you (who knows what they are talking about) is that science has limits. So the people you're talking to are very ignorant if they are taking offense at this. Science a new religion? Clearly you have no idea what science is, or how it works either.

A parody isn't going to work when you don't understand the subject matter.

I have a website here which discusses the issues and terminology surrounding religion and atheism. It's hopefully user friendly to all.
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17-07-2017, 07:48 AM (This post was last modified: 17-07-2017 07:58 AM by LaraLara.)
RE: anti-atheist multiverse parody -please review
(17-07-2017 07:31 AM)Robvalue Wrote:  One can be an atheist for any reason. If you want to tackle sceptics, then why not just say sceptics? Or say advocates of science?

For me the situation is dificult to understand. I come from Europe and here I guess the main reasons for beeing atheists are still purely moral ones. But when I look to the USA the most famous atheist now all seem natural scientists and connected to the sceptics movement, so that is why I think they are taking over.

Your quritqiue is correct if I want the scientific sceptic I somehow should mark the target a bit more clear. But the problem is: humor is simple so I must find some simple way to make this philosophical and hence not simple distinctions more clear. Give me more time how to solve this problem by means of literature.
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17-07-2017, 08:00 AM
RE: anti-atheist multiverse parody -please review
(17-07-2017 07:48 AM)LaraLara Wrote:  
(17-07-2017 07:31 AM)Robvalue Wrote:  One can be an atheist for any reason. If you want to tackle sceptics, then why not just say sceptics? Or say advocates of science?

For me the situation is dificult to understand. I come from Europe and here I guess the main reasons for beeing atheists are still purely moral ones. But when I look to the USA the most famous atheist now all seem natural scientists, so that is why I think they are taking over.

Your quritqiue is correct if I want the scientific sceptic I somehow should mark the target a bit more clear. But the problem is: humor is simple so I must find some simple way to make this philosophical and hence not simple distinctions more clear. Give me more time how to solve this problem by means of literature.

Well, people could certainly reject particular religions for moral reasons. I wouldn't choose to be a part of any of the Abrahamic ones for a start, even if they were true, because I find them disgusting. I don't see any moral reasons for rejecting God as a generic intelligent designer. Even if you dislike what it has done, that isn't a reason to think its not real.

I think morality is often a starting point though, because it points out the contradictions between what religious people say their God is meant to be, and what their books actually say. It's meant to be "good", while it's written as being vile. So they can't believe such a thing could be real, because they don't think it's good at all.

Sure, many of the famous atheist speakers are scientists (or at least sceptics). This is probably self-selecting to a degree, as they will be the ones best placed to make convincing arguments. Those who arrive at atheism for less analytical reasons will probably not be as well accepted, or perhaps wouldn't want to speak about it publically at all. This is also a very small sample of all the atheists in the world.

If I had to guess, I'd say that a decent portion of atheists are scientifically minded, but how many exactly I couldn't say. Somewhere between 50-70%. I really don't have enough data to go on. The most common reason I've heard for being an atheist, by far, is that there is no evidence for a God. This is pretty simple, and you don't have to be especially scientifically minded to notice. I go further myself and say that there can't even be any evidence for a God until it's been defined in a falsifiable way. But I'm an overly analytical anal twat, according to my wife.

I would enjoy a good parody of either atheists or scientist chaps, so thanks for taking my feedback.

I have a website here which discusses the issues and terminology surrounding religion and atheism. It's hopefully user friendly to all.
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17-07-2017, 08:15 AM (This post was last modified: 17-07-2017 08:18 AM by Robvalue.)
RE: anti-atheist multiverse parody -please review
(17-07-2017 08:10 AM)LaraLara Wrote:  Its nice that I am accused of trolling after I rised the red hearing flag but in the title of this treat I politely asked for a review ("please")

The polite way to answer such a question would be to help review (as some are doing) or skip the text, which is tentative.

After all I expose myself here in a forum where I am not well liked and that takes some courage. Going with the herd does not. You might form a mob here against me (I am counting three now) if you like but I will note that as a more general problem.

If you are solely reading this for attacking me personally it did not make sense to post at all.

In particular I am still waiting if there is a problem in the physics I described but as I said I can't force you.

I would happily analyze physics, to the best of my ability, but I don't seem to see any. You said this was a parody, so I assume it's not even meant to be totally accurate? I'm confused. All I see are a lot of assertions, followed by some strange usage of the Razor.

You said you're trying to combat people making science into a religion. This is the problem with your aim: such people are an extremely tiny, crazy portion of any scientific community. Most people are going to have no idea who you're talking about. I've never met anyone like this. They have no chance of success, because the goal doesn't even make sense and science needs no kind of zealotry to prove its worth. Such people don't understand science to begin with.

I have a website here which discusses the issues and terminology surrounding religion and atheism. It's hopefully user friendly to all.
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17-07-2017, 08:16 AM
RE: anti-atheist multiverse parody -please review
(17-07-2017 05:42 AM)LaraLara Wrote:  As I figured out so fare you now have three options what to do:

1. In honour of Ockham you accept the simplest universe theory as the leading t.o.e.Weeping
Your mistake is in calling this the "simplest" theory. Anyway Ockham's razor is a *heuristic* tool, it's not some Divine Command. By your logic I can just say "God did it" is the simplest explanation, and throw out the whole of science.

Quote:2. You forget about Ockhams razor. This would open the discussion again for other explanations that are to complex to but into simple equations such as god.

3. You safe Ockhams razor but throw out the multiverse. Remember that this re-opens the discussion about the fine tuning of the universe again as the multiverse is the by fare best argument against it.

Could you state your understanding of what Ockham's razor actually *is*, before making grandiose claims?

Quote:This is a peace of art Smile and hence coyprighted.
I don't think you're in any danger of anyone wanting to steal it.

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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17-07-2017, 08:25 AM
RE: anti-atheist multiverse parody -please review
To be fair, there have been some really dumb movements like "atheism plus". They didn't need any help falling flat on their stupid faces.

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17-07-2017, 08:28 AM
RE: anti-atheist multiverse parody -please review
(17-07-2017 08:25 AM)Robvalue Wrote:  To be fair, there have been some really stupid movements like "atheism plus". They didn't need any help falling flat on their stupid faces.

Weren't they about social issues? I don't remember and won't bother to look but I doubt that they tried to make science religion.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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17-07-2017, 08:41 AM
RE: anti-atheist multiverse parody -please review
G'day, and welcome to the forums. BTW, it's probably not a good idea—as a newbie on any forum—to post such confrontational and/or deliberately inflammatory comments without getting a "feel" for the aims of the forum overall, plus the viewpoints of its members generally on matters of science and religion.


(17-07-2017 05:42 AM)LaraLara Wrote:  Hi, while I am an agnostic and live together with a lovely atheist I frankly do not get along with the more extreme styles of atheism and that atheist that just can not resist the ad hominem attack.

There is no such thing as an "extreme" atheist. I think you're mistakenly confusing the thrust of that phrase with the valid phrase "religious zealot". There are no degrees of atheism; you either are one, or you're not. A woman can't be extremely pregnant or mildly pregnant for example.

The state of atheism is nothing more and nothing less than the singular, personal belief that the likelihood of the existence of God or gods in the real world is zero. It's simply a state of mind. I'm also not sure what you mean by saying your partner is a "lovely" atheist. Atheists come from all walks of life, and more often than not don't necessarily share the same viewpoints on lots of topics—from science to philosophy, to the arts, to morals and ethics, to politics, to sexuality, etc. Would you describe an atheist rapist as an "evil atheist"?

Quote:Only if there is still a misunderstanding about Ockham: Ockhams razor is a main component of science theory and science is a main component of atheism so that is the connection between atheism and making fun of Ockhams razor.

No, Okham's Razor is not a "main component" of science. Nor is science the "main component" of atheism. Your first so-called component(s) is, in actuality, hypothesising, observation, research, and replication—which leads to a scientific theory. Nothing to do with the good friar William. Your second "component" is nothing more than a personal disbelief in the existence of supernatural entities and paranormal phenomena. Period.

I'm pretty sure you actually don't understand exactly what atheism means, or why you're trying so hard to demonise [sic ] it?

Quote:I was so evil to mention in front of an atheist that science has limits... not to mention that it is full of fraud which I have witnessed first hand.

Every atheist on this forum would freely admit to accepting that science has its limits. And that quality is one of the things that make current science so authoritative and superior in comparison to religion. In more than 2,000 years, not one piece of biblical scripture has been able to be unequivocally verified—beyond hearsay, fairy tales, mythology, fantasy, misrepresentation, and even purposeful lies.

Finally, rather than describing yourself as an "agnostic", I'd say your true leanings are more aligned with weak theism. True agnostics aren't nearly as belligerent or as critical of atheists and atheism as you are.

I'm a creationist... I believe that man created God.
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