anti-atheist multiverse parody -please review
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17-07-2017, 08:46 AM
RE: anti-atheist multiverse parody -please review
(17-07-2017 06:12 AM)Szuchow Wrote:  
(17-07-2017 06:05 AM)LaraLara Wrote:  Missionary atheism versus atheism as a simple private believe.

No such thing as missionary atheism. At most there are atheists who proselytize.

I'm not sure what the difference is between missionizing and proselytizing. I did Google the words and they looked like basically the same thing. Is it a money thing? Is it a charitable service thing? Is it an organizational thing?

I have most definitely encountered atheists who fall into this category in practice, even if not officially. I think when Christians from aggressive, proselytizing denominations leave Christianity, they leave with their basic, Christian operating system in tact. Their research has led them to a new conclusion about the bible, but nothing in their research has prepared them on how to modify their behavior. -Or even to recognize that the proselytizing is not a normal way to conduct themselves.

I've met atheists (mostly online, and probably limited to "new" atheists) who state that they're committed to the cause of destroying all religion and bringing everyone in line to their idea of a perfect way of thinking. I would define that as missionary work.

Either way, they I find it incredibly ironic that they're really just Christians with a different message. They haven't escaped Christianity at all.
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17-07-2017, 08:53 AM
RE: anti-atheist multiverse parody -please review
(17-07-2017 08:46 AM)Aliza Wrote:  
(17-07-2017 06:12 AM)Szuchow Wrote:  No such thing as missionary atheism. At most there are atheists who proselytize.

I'm not sure what the difference is between missionizing and proselytizing. I did Google the words and they looked like basically the same thing. Is it a money thing? Is it a charitable service thing? Is it an organizational thing?

I just didn't wanted to use same word twice so I hoped they're synonymous.

Quote:I have most definitely encountered atheists who fall into this category in practice, even if not officially. I think when Christians from aggressive, proselytizing denominations leave Christianity, they leave with their basic, Christian operating system in tact. Their research has led them to a new conclusion about the bible, but nothing in their research has prepared them on how to modify their behavior. -Or even to recognize that the proselytizing is not a normal way to conduct themselves.

I've met atheists (mostly online, and probably limited to "new" atheists) who state that they're committed to the cause of destroying all religion and bringing everyone in line to their idea of a perfect way of thinking. I would define that as missionary work.

Either way, they I find it incredibly ironic that they're really just Christians with a different message. They haven't escaped Christianity at all.

I'm not denying existence of preachy atheists but atheism itself is nothing more than lack of belief. It can't be preachy or aggressive. It just is or at least such is my take.

Or to say it differently - christianity may require preaching whereas atheism does not require "illuminating others with light of reason".

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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17-07-2017, 09:06 AM
RE: anti-atheist multiverse parody -please review
(17-07-2017 08:46 AM)Aliza Wrote:  
(17-07-2017 06:12 AM)Szuchow Wrote:  No such thing as missionary atheism. At most there are atheists who proselytize.

I'm not sure what the difference is between missionizing and proselytizing. I did Google the words and they looked like basically the same thing. Is it a money thing? Is it a charitable service thing? Is it an organizational thing?

Missionary Christians actually do organise and send people to different places, ironically often here (ETA: by here I mean South Africa), to tell us about Jesus. In that sense there's no such thing as a missionary atheist. At most you could say there are a few rather vocal ones, some of whom are perhaps as obnoxious as religious people. Personally anyone who tries to shove their bullshit down my throat I'm gonna feel animosity towards.

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If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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17-07-2017, 09:07 AM
RE: anti-atheist multiverse parody -please review
I agree that there are atheists who are vocal about "destroying all religion". However, it's a tiny minority that would actually go out and take aggressive action such as vandalizing a church or hassling religious people (or worse). This minority is a group of thugs who I would want nothing to do with.

The rest of such vocal atheists are (I hope) really talking about destroying it through discussion and education. I think there are good arguments that religion is overall undesirable, so I understand the goal. Personally I want to promote education, reason and compassion. Then the best ideas for everyone will rise to the top, whatever they may be. There are certainly many aspects of religion that are harmful and need to go. But the way to get rid of them is not through thuggery.

I have a website here which discusses the issues and terminology surrounding religion and atheism. It's hopefully user friendly to all.
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17-07-2017, 09:08 AM (This post was last modified: 17-07-2017 09:13 AM by Robvalue.)
RE: anti-atheist multiverse parody -please review
(17-07-2017 08:28 AM)Szuchow Wrote:  
(17-07-2017 08:25 AM)Robvalue Wrote:  To be fair, there have been some really stupid movements like "atheism plus". They didn't need any help falling flat on their stupid faces.

Weren't they about social issues? I don't remember and won't bother to look but I doubt that they tried to make science religion.

Yeah, I think it was to do with bringing in feminism and junk like that. Science as well, but certainly not in a religious sense. More like advocating it.

It may be interesting to Lara that it was atheists themselves who were mostly responsible for discrediting and distancing themselves from this kind of thing (in my understanding anyway).

(PS, I mean to say they distanced themselves from the idea of pigeonholing all atheists, not from any particular thing the group was trying to add onto the "definition" of atheism.)

I have a website here which discusses the issues and terminology surrounding religion and atheism. It's hopefully user friendly to all.
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17-07-2017, 09:17 AM
RE: anti-atheist multiverse parody -please review
(17-07-2017 09:08 AM)Robvalue Wrote:  
(17-07-2017 08:28 AM)Szuchow Wrote:  Weren't they about social issues? I don't remember and won't bother to look but I doubt that they tried to make science religion.

Yeah, I think it was to do with bringing in feminism and junk like that. Science as well, but certainly not in a religious sense. More like advocating it.

It may be interesting to Lara that it was atheists themselves who were mostly responsible for discrediting and distancing themselves from this kind of thing (in my understanding anyway).

(PS, I mean to say they distanced themselves from the idea of pigeonholing all atheists, not from any particular thing the group was trying to add onto the "definition" of atheism.)

From what little I remember it was strange thing.

I don't get why people want atheism to be something more than it is.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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17-07-2017, 09:26 AM
RE: anti-atheist multiverse parody -please review
(17-07-2017 09:17 AM)Szuchow Wrote:  From what little I remember it was strange thing.

I think there were no good-looking people in that debacle. IIRC the main thing was that some atheist women had felt harrassed, and tried to make a movement that was more feminist. To which several prominent male atheists reacted like someone took away their favourite toy. Unfortunately the atheism+ movement then became very dogmatic themselves and so the whole shit-show ended with no one learning anything.

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If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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17-07-2017, 09:34 AM
RE: anti-atheist multiverse parody -please review
(17-07-2017 09:26 AM)morondog Wrote:  
(17-07-2017 09:17 AM)Szuchow Wrote:  From what little I remember it was strange thing.

I think there were no good-looking people in that debacle. IIRC the main thing was that some atheist women had felt harrassed, and tried to make a movement that was more feminist. To which several prominent male atheists reacted like someone took away their favourite toy. Unfortunately the atheism+ movement then became very dogmatic themselves and so the whole shit-show ended with no one learning anything.

Seems like strange wasn't bad word to describe it, even if others would be more fitting.

I find idea of atheist movement absurd - beyond lack of belief there is nothing else in common after all, nothing to build from.

(17-07-2017 09:33 AM)OakTree500 Wrote:  Aww, I missed a corker here I see, having just read up on the thread!

Not really sure what the OP's point was here to be honest, It came across as they were trying to make some sort of joke, and then it spiraled out of control when nobody found it funny, and just asked her some fairly straight forward questions?

I doubt in the existence of point in this case. Looked like some weird ramblings.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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17-07-2017, 09:40 AM
RE: anti-atheist multiverse parody -please review
(17-07-2017 05:42 AM)LaraLara Wrote:  Hi,

while I am an agnostic and live together with a lovely atheist I frankly do not get along with the more extreme styles of atheism and that atheist that just can not resist the adhominem attack.

As I am really annoyed now I have created a science parody about the multiverse. I put it here for quritique but remember in the end it s a parody not a scientific undertaking.

The simplest multiverse

The simplest multiverse is a variation of the multiverse theory. In ackordance with Ockhams razor I stripped everything out of the theory that is not really necessary to explain the universe we see. The first thing which had to go where all known natural laws - because you have to addmitt it - they convolute the thing a bit.

I instead replaced them with two meta rules:

1. There are infinite universes with infinite branching universes and hence infinite reality lines.

2. There is a random generator that creates and destroys matter at random places in all of this infinite universes.

In all of this infinite universes the random generator will create by pure chance universes that look like universes that have sprung from natural law - although they are vastly outnumbered by universes which look like a big soup of matter.

How does a movement look in such a universe if there is for example no law of gravity?

A falling object would not be a falling object - it would be an object that is destroyed and a bit lower recreated by chance again and again - you just need to be all the time in the right reality lines to misinterprete this as a movement.

There are no fields by the way. We never measured them directly, we only measured their interaction with matter.

Now as all of this is mathematically much simpler to describe than current theories of the universe according to Ockhams razor it is the simpler and hence more likely theory of how our universe comes about.

As I figured out so fare you now have three options what to do:

1. In honour of Ockham you accept the simplest universe theory as the leading t.o.e.Weeping

2. You forget about Ockhams razor. This would open the discussion again for other explanations that are to complex to but into simple equations such as god.

3. You safe Ockhams razor but throw out the multiverse. Remember that this re-opens the discussion about the fine tuning of the universe again as the multiverse is the by fare best argument against it.

This is a peace of art Smile and hence coyprighted.

I'd like more dragons personally. Drinking Beverage

" Generally speaking, the errors in religion are dangerous; those in philosophy only ridiculous."
David Hume
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17-07-2017, 09:41 AM
RE: anti-atheist multiverse parody -please review
(17-07-2017 09:34 AM)Szuchow Wrote:  I find idea of atheist movement absurd - beyond lack of belief there is nothing else in common after all, nothing to build from.

Atheists in the USA do have an identity beyond just being atheist though. Through being excluded they become united, same way it works with any minority. Within that atheist movement, there was a sub-movement aimed at being more inclusive of women. AFAIK that was all there was to it, but it got blown into some big deal.

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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