asking for forgiveness
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19-06-2015, 06:09 AM
RE: asking for forgiveness
(19-06-2015 05:45 AM)Banjo Wrote:  
(19-06-2015 05:42 AM)unfogged Wrote:  Hitchens didn't claim it was in the bible. Do you disagree that many Christians believe that we have free will and that is part of their god's plan?

No I do not. Many Christians believe the idea originated in the bible. They are mistaken.

Some think that the golden rule is one of the 10 commandments. Actually reading the bible and knowing what it says doesn't seem to very important to a great many Christians. (I wish more did since that'd likely make a lot more atheists!)

I can see where they get 'free will' from the Genesis story although you are right that it is not actually stated. The bible is so badly written that you can use it to support most any belief that you already have as long as you are willing to cherry-pick and "interpret".

The point is that when Hitchens says "we have free will, the boss says so" he isn't claiming it came from the bible, only that many Christians believe that their god gave them free will and that is a core component of their whole "salvation" concept. As DLJ noted, he was going for a laugh but it is funny because it is largely true.

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19-06-2015, 06:17 AM
RE: asking for forgiveness
(19-06-2015 06:09 AM)unfogged Wrote:  
(19-06-2015 05:45 AM)Banjo Wrote:  No I do not. Many Christians believe the idea originated in the bible. They are mistaken.

Some think that the golden rule is one of the 10 commandments. Actually reading the bible and knowing what it says doesn't seem to very important to a great many Christians. (I wish more did since that'd likely make a lot more atheists!)

I can see where they get 'free will' from the Genesis story although you are right that it is not actually stated. The bible is so badly written that you can use it to support most any belief that you already have as long as you are willing to cherry-pick and "interpret".

The point is that when Hitchens says "we have free will, the boss says so" he isn't claiming it came from the bible, only that many Christians believe that their god gave them free will and that is a core component of their whole "salvation" concept. As DLJ noted, he was going for a laugh but it is funny because it is largely true.


What? There is no mention of Free Will in Genesis!
Pastor Nereu Gargalo. Landover Baptist Church.

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19-06-2015, 06:22 AM
RE: asking for forgiveness
(19-06-2015 06:17 AM)Banjo Wrote:  What? There is no mention of Free Will in Genesis!

I didn't say there was. I said "I can see where they get 'free will' from the Genesis story".

Quote:Pastor Nereu Gargalo. Landover Baptist Church.

I assume I'm just missing the joke here. I have no idea why you bring up LBC.

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19-06-2015, 06:25 AM
RE: asking for forgiveness
I am Pastor Nereu Gargalo. Or was.

How can you see where they get free will from the Genesis story WHEN IT IS NOT IN GENESIS???

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19-06-2015, 06:38 AM
RE: asking for forgiveness
(19-06-2015 06:25 AM)Banjo Wrote:  I am Pastor Nereu Gargalo. Or was.

How can you see where they get free will from the Genesis story WHEN IT IS NOT IN GENESIS???

God created A&E and put them in the garden.
God put the tree of the knowledge of good and evil in the garden.
God told them that they were not to eat from that tree or there would be consequences.
A&E chose to eat from the tree.
Had god created automatons they would not have been able to defy his directions. That means they were able to make a choice to obey or not.
That means they had free will.
That means god intentionally gave them free will (because everything is planned).
That means we have free will, the boss says so.

I am not saying it makes sense or that I agree with it, only that I understand how Christians can read the story that way.

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19-06-2015, 06:45 AM
RE: asking for forgiveness
You are NOT quoting the bible.

Try again dipshit, I read the thing.

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19-06-2015, 06:46 AM
RE: asking for forgiveness
"That means god intentionally gave them free will (because everything is planned)."

Do you actually know what you say? This is a massive contradiction. Free will is impossible if everything is planned.

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19-06-2015, 06:48 AM
RE: asking for forgiveness
(19-06-2015 06:45 AM)Banjo Wrote:  You are NOT quoting the bible.

Try again dipshit, I read the thing.

You're just not a True Christian™. The Holy Spirit guides my reading and if the KJV was good enough for Jesus, it's good enough for me!

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19-06-2015, 06:53 AM
RE: asking for forgiveness
(19-06-2015 06:48 AM)unfogged Wrote:  
(19-06-2015 06:45 AM)Banjo Wrote:  You are NOT quoting the bible.

Try again dipshit, I read the thing.

You're just not a True Christian™. The Holy Spirit guides my reading and if the KJV was good enough for Jesus, it's good enough for me!

the KJV did NOT exist at the time of the supposed life of Jesus.

Are you 12?

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19-06-2015, 06:54 AM (This post was last modified: 19-06-2015 07:03 AM by DLJ.)
RE: asking for forgiveness
(19-06-2015 06:46 AM)Banjo Wrote:  "That means god intentionally gave them free will (because everything is planned)."

Do you actually know what you say? This is a massive contradiction. Free will is impossible if everything is planned.

I think we need a sarcasm / irony font Wink

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