attacking the "people can believe whatever they want" argument
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
22-04-2011, 04:30 AM
RE: attacking the "people can believe whatever they want" argument
People can believe what they want! As long as it does not affect anyone else.

Big problem there...
Whether you like it or not, your thoughts will steer your actions.

Observer

Agnostic atheist
Secular humanist
Emotional rationalist
Disclaimer: Don’t mix the personal opinion above with the absolute and objective truth. Remember to think for yourself. Thank you.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
22-04-2011, 04:33 AM
RE: attacking the "people can believe whatever they want" argument
Wow, Sam Harris speech was beautyfull IMO. Like Mike said, I don't see why this could be considered as "utter garbage", that way of thinking is not harmful at all, religious preachers do more harm, but its not entirely their fault because their speech is based on obsolete and immoral ideals IMO.

Thats one of the most notable examples about how religious beliefs are harmful. For example, a year ago in my conutry, 3 women were prosecuted and they have to sped 25+ years in jail because the suffered pregnancy complications and miscarriaged their babies, of course, this was clearly a religion based judgement, the prosecutors and judges said it was a crime against the sanctity of life and ignored all the evidence of medical complications. Should I respect religion-based choices and judgements? Hell no!

But back to the main topic. Personally I don't care if people choose to believe in something which I consider irrational.

BUT, I dont think I must have the moral obligation to respect or tolerate religious beliefs. I'm not saying that religious people must not be respected, I respect people as human beings, I respect their choice. But if/when a religious fundament is wrong, immoral or just intellectualy insulting, thats when I don't feel I should keep my mouth shut.

A friend of mine is catholic, and I respect him as a human being, but he told me once in a serious debate that the "holy" inquisition must return in order to have a moral guide through fear; fear to the inquisitors and fear to "god" itself. After all judeo-christianism its full of hatred and intolerance for the non-believers, homosexual people, etc. I told him that this idea is insulting and stupid, and he does not talk to me since then.

Religions are not bad because of zealots, fundamentalists, etc., religions, specifically judeo-christianism and islam for example, are harmful and immoral because of their core ideas, thats when religious become dangerous, like my signature;

"The tendency to turn human judgments into divine commands makes religion one of the most dangerous forces in the world."

Thats why I dont feel compelled to respect religious beliefs, if I find something immoral or just plain irrational I don't see why should I or anybody should respect it.

"The tendency to turn human judgments into divine commands makes religion one of the most dangerous forces in the world.”
-Georgia Harkness.

"La fe es patrimonio de los pendejos. (Faith is patrimony of the dumbfucks)."
-Diego Rivera
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
22-04-2011, 06:04 AM
RE: attacking the "people can believe whatever they want" argument
(21-04-2011 06:02 PM)Ghost Wrote:  Hey, Stark.

Lol. Wow. That's quite the image you conjure.

My question is, do Atheists ever wave around the ol fire hose?

Yep, they sure do. I'd be lying if I said they did it as much as theists, but atheists most definitely wave that hose when it should be left rolled up in the truck. And it pisses me off just as much as when theists do it.

So many cats, so few good recipes.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
22-04-2011, 06:29 PM
RE: attacking the "people can believe whatever they want" argument
I agree with Sam Harris. The religious, holocast deniers and those who believe Elvis is still alive are all delussional. I disrespect them all equally.

Hey Ghost

He didn't say Elvis fans, he said those who believe Elvis is still alive. Big difference.

When I find myself in times of trouble, Richard Dawkins comes to me, speaking words of reason, now I see, now I see.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
23-04-2011, 09:45 AM
RE: attacking the "people can believe whatever they want" argument
I agree with Harris too. Why do we have to respect the Church's stance on condoms while they not only do nothing to stem the spread of AIDs in Africa but actually end up contributing to its spread and the death of millions. Why can't we require the same standards of proof and evidence from religion that we require from any one else in any other course of study, especially as religion is influencing public policy.

We have to respect Texas governor Rick Perry's call for prayer to stop rain but he gets to question the science around global warming and let the influence public policy? How does that work? Why does religion get put on some special pedestal that no other claim would get put on?

Shackle their minds when they're bent on the cross
When ignorance reigns, life is lost
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
23-04-2011, 02:58 PM
 
RE: attacking the "people can believe whatever they want" argument
(21-04-2011 01:11 PM)latvianxave8 Wrote:  I often come across this at the end of a debate with a theist.

What do you say after someone says this?

I say: wrong. No one is considered sane that "believes" they are allowed to rape little girls, bomb hospitals, park their car in the middle of an intersection, cut down the Amazon for a bonfire...etc.

So, no, people cannot "believe" whatever they want, it is a ludicrous rhetorical device meant to shut you up.
Quote this message in a reply
23-04-2011, 07:52 PM
RE: attacking the "people can believe whatever they want" argument
So, if people can't believe whatever they want, then who is the arbiter of what people can think and how do those decisions get enforced?

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
23-04-2011, 08:39 PM
RE: attacking the "people can believe whatever they want" argument
(23-04-2011 02:58 PM)sano Wrote:  I say: wrong. No one is considered sane that "believes" they are allowed to rape little girls, bomb hospitals, park their car in the middle of an intersection, cut down the Amazon for a bonfire...etc.

So, no, people cannot "believe" whatever they want, it is a ludicrous rhetorical device meant to shut you up.
Plenty of people believe you can cut down as much of the Amazon as you want... as long as you own cattle.

Something something something Dark Side
Something something something complete
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
23-04-2011, 09:21 PM
RE: attacking the "people can believe whatever they want" argument
(23-04-2011 07:52 PM)Ghost Wrote:  So, if people can't believe whatever they want, then who is the arbiter of what people can think and how do those decisions get enforced?

What good is believing anything you want? What is wrong with knowing some stuff and admitting to yourself, and others that you don't know other stuff, and forget about filling your voids in knowledge with beliefs?

As far as thinking is concerned, beliefs are more often a result of not thinking than of thinking. Beliefs are also the reasons many people refuse to accept proven facts and empirical evidence.

Beliefs also are an huge obstacle in the way of learning anything that may possibly interfere with said beliefs, and often interfere with learning stuff unrelated to said beliefs.

My questions are:
"Why do we have to believe anything?"
"Why can't we just accept the fact that we don't know everything?"
"Why can't we leave our minds open to learning?"
"Why do I have to respect anyone who refuses to be open to learning?"
"Why do I have to respect people who have a profound influence over my life, yet they are going to close their minds to reality?"
"Why do I have to respect people who benefit from science every day and would be totally lost without their scientifically created devices and medicines, yet they attack science and claim that scientists don't know what they are talking about?"
"Why do I have to respect people who claim to believe in the bible. yet they don't do what the bible tells them to do, they don't believe the parts of the bible that they don't want to and they interpret the bible to suit their own personal beliefs?"
"Why do I have to respect anyone who lies to try to prove his truth?"
"Why should religion be allowed to say whatever they want to and not be compelled to support what they say with verifiable evidence or proof? Until such verifiable evidence or proof is provided, why should I respect them or what they say?"

When I find myself in times of trouble, Richard Dawkins comes to me, speaking words of reason, now I see, now I see.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
24-04-2011, 10:27 AM
RE: attacking the "people can believe whatever they want" argument
I'm with Stark on this one, keep your theoretical pants on everyone, nobody need's theological penises in their throats, it's just as unpleasant as it sounds. Or so I would imagine...

Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: