balancing of the scales
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04-04-2013, 11:49 AM
balancing of the scales
A lot of atheists here have a problem with eternal damnation. They think it is unfair to punish somebody for eternity. Their thinking goes like this: Hitler, as bad as his actions were, his actions were finite so it would be unfair to give him an infinite amount of punishment. What these atheists fail to realize is that a finite amount of punishment can be spread over an inifinte amount of time.

Example: Suppose God judged Hitler and found that for his crimes against humanity Hitler deserves to endure X amount of pain. God then decides that the finite amount of pain Hitler is to endure be spread over an infinite time period. So God commands Lucifer that each year Hitler is in hell Hitler is to recieve only half of X. If X starts out as 1 trillion BTUs of heat or pain, Lucifer only dispenses a half trillion BTUs in the first year Hitler is in hell....that leaves Hitler with half a trillion BTUs to endure to satisfy his punishment. However, in the next year Lucifer only dispense a quarter trillion BTUs, in the third year Lucifer only dispenses an eighth and so on and so forth. Hitler never gets out of hell, his finite punishment goes on for eternity.

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04-04-2013, 11:52 AM
RE: balancing of the scales



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04-04-2013, 12:01 PM
RE: balancing of the scales
A finite number divided by infinity is zero. Therefore a finite punishment distributed over an infinite period of time would be no punishment at all. Unless you plan to have him tortured for 500 years and then sit in a waiting room with elevator music and out of date magazines for the rest of eternity...

In order to have a number divided by infinity equal something other than zero, the numerator has to be infinity. And infinity divided by infinity is undefined.

The concept of hell is therefore mathematically ludicrous.

Thank you, I now have a new disproof of Christian theology.

E 2 = (mc 2)2 + (pc )2
614C → 714N + e + ̅νe
2 K(s) + 2 H2O(l) → 2 KOH(aq) + H2 (g) + 196 kJ/mol
It works, bitches.
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04-04-2013, 12:01 PM
RE: balancing of the scales
(04-04-2013 11:49 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  A lot of atheists here have a problem with eternal damnation. They think it is unfair to punish somebody for eternity. Their thinking goes like this: Hitler, as bad as his actions were, his actions were finite so it would be unfair to give him an infinite amount of punishment. What these atheists fail to realize is that a finite amount of punishment can be spread over an inifinte amount of time.

Example: Suppose God judged Hitler and found that for his crimes against humanity Hitler deserves to endure X amount of pain. God then decides that the finite amount of pain Hitler is to endure be spread over an infinite time period. So God commands Lucifer that each year Hitler is in hell Hitler is to recieve only half of X. If X starts out as 1 trillion BTUs of heat or pain, Lucifer only dispenses a half trillion BTUs in the first year Hitler is in hell....that leaves Hitler with half a trillion BTUs to endure to satisfy his punishment. However, in the next year Lucifer only dispense a quarter trillion BTUs, in the third year Lucifer only dispenses an eighth and so on and so forth. Hitler never gets out of hell, his finite punishment goes on for eternity.


In a very short time, the pain level is that of a mosquito bite. Eventually it's barely noticeable.
So for most of eternity, no pain.

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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04-04-2013, 12:03 PM
RE: balancing of the scales
(04-04-2013 11:49 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  A lot of atheists here have a problem with eternal damnation. They think it is unfair to punish somebody for eternity. Their thinking goes like this: Hitler, as bad as his actions were, his actions were finite so it would be unfair to give him an infinite amount of punishment. What these atheists fail to realize is that a finite amount of punishment can be spread over an inifinte amount of time.

Example: Suppose God judged Hitler and found that for his crimes against humanity Hitler deserves to endure X amount of pain. God then decides that the finite amount of pain Hitler is to endure be spread over an infinite time period. So God commands Lucifer that each year Hitler is in hell Hitler is to recieve only half of X. If X starts out as 1 trillion BTUs of heat or pain, Lucifer only dispenses a half trillion BTUs in the first year Hitler is in hell....that leaves Hitler with half a trillion BTUs to endure to satisfy his punishment. However, in the next year Lucifer only dispense a quarter trillion BTUs, in the third year Lucifer only dispenses an eighth and so on and so forth. Hitler never gets out of hell, his finite punishment goes on for eternity.
Interesting but I have never heard anyone make the strawman case you presented a solution for. However can you solve for X. X= catholic upbringing + intense stress + imminent failure= Most likely a return to childhood habits and a plead to god for forgiveness and acceptance. Therefor Hitler is in heaven but his victims (Jews and Commies and homosexuals ect) burn for all eternity.

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04-04-2013, 12:04 PM
RE: balancing of the scales
(04-04-2013 12:01 PM)Phaedrus Wrote:  A finite number divided by infinity is zero. Therefore a finite punishment distributed over an infinite period of time would be no punishment at all. Unless you plan to have him tortured for 500 years and then sit in a waiting room with elevator music and out of date magazines for the rest of eternity...

In order to have a number divided by infinity equal something other than zero, the numerator has to be infinity. And infinity divided by infinity is undefined.

The concept of hell is therefore mathematically ludicrous.

Thank you, I now have a new disproof of Christian theology.

When 0 is in the denominator you don't get 0. You have something which is undefined.

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04-04-2013, 12:07 PM
RE: balancing of the scales
(04-04-2013 12:01 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(04-04-2013 11:49 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  A lot of atheists here have a problem with eternal damnation. They think it is unfair to punish somebody for eternity. Their thinking goes like this: Hitler, as bad as his actions were, his actions were finite so it would be unfair to give him an infinite amount of punishment. What these atheists fail to realize is that a finite amount of punishment can be spread over an inifinte amount of time.

Example: Suppose God judged Hitler and found that for his crimes against humanity Hitler deserves to endure X amount of pain. God then decides that the finite amount of pain Hitler is to endure be spread over an infinite time period. So God commands Lucifer that each year Hitler is in hell Hitler is to recieve only half of X. If X starts out as 1 trillion BTUs of heat or pain, Lucifer only dispenses a half trillion BTUs in the first year Hitler is in hell....that leaves Hitler with half a trillion BTUs to endure to satisfy his punishment. However, in the next year Lucifer only dispense a quarter trillion BTUs, in the third year Lucifer only dispenses an eighth and so on and so forth. Hitler never gets out of hell, his finite punishment goes on for eternity.


In a very short time, the pain level is that of a mosquito bite. Eventually it's barely noticeable.
So for most of eternity, no pain.

Hitler would always be enduring pain, but it would lessen over time. You had it right up until you said for most of eternity "no pain".

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04-04-2013, 12:10 PM
RE: balancing of the scales
(04-04-2013 12:07 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(04-04-2013 12:01 PM)Chas Wrote:  In a very short time, the pain level is that of a mosquito bite. Eventually it's barely noticeable.
So for most of eternity, no pain.

Hitler would always be enduring pain, but it would lessen over time. You had it right up until you said for most of eternity "no pain".


Pain less than threshold awareness. Essentially no pain.

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04-04-2013, 12:11 PM
RE: balancing of the scales
Numerator. Not denominator. Here, let me show it to you in equations:

x = R(>0, <0)
x / ∞ = Undefined, but with a limit approaching zero


As for ∞ / ∞, it is also Undefined. A proof:

∞ / ∞ = 1

∞ * (1 / ∞) = 1

1 / ∞ = Undefined

∞ * Undefined = 1

∞ / ∞ = Undefined, with no limit



Basically the entire thing falls apart the instant you apply maths to it. Your geometric regression sequence outlined in the first post technically outlines a "finite" amount of punishment over an infinite period; however it approaches zero with extreme rapidity and would soon decrease below the pain threshold of any human. Making the pain freeze at the edge of the threshold would still result in an infinite punishment.

E 2 = (mc 2)2 + (pc )2
614C → 714N + e + ̅νe
2 K(s) + 2 H2O(l) → 2 KOH(aq) + H2 (g) + 196 kJ/mol
It works, bitches.
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04-04-2013, 12:29 PM
RE: balancing of the scales
(04-04-2013 12:07 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(04-04-2013 12:01 PM)Chas Wrote:  In a very short time, the pain level is that of a mosquito bite. Eventually it's barely noticeable.
So for most of eternity, no pain.

Hitler would always be enduring pain, but it would lessen over time. You had it right up until you said for most of eternity "no pain".

You're obviously not getting it.

Using your example of a trillion BTUs of heat and halving that number every year, we get:

Year 1: 500,000,000,000 BTUs
Year 2: 250,000,000,000 BTUs
Year 3: 125,000,000,000 BTUs
Year 4: 62,500,000,.000 BTUs
Year 5: 31,2500,000,000 BTUs
Year 6: 15,625,000,000 BTUs
Year 7: 7,812,500,000 BTUs
Year 8: 3,906,250,000 BTUs
Year 9: 1,953,125,000 BTUs
Year 10: 976,562,500 BTUs
Year 15: 30,517,578 BTUs
Year 20: 953,674 BTUs
Year 25: 29,802 BTUs
Year 30: 931 BTUs
Year 35: 29 BTUs
Year 40: 1 BTU

So after a mere 40 years, he is suffering only 1 BTU spread out over the entire year. That is about the heat produced by burning one match, spread over a year, wouldn't even give him a blister.

Then for the next 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 years it's even less. No blisters, no suffering.

And that is only the barest little blip of eternity, not even really the tiniest little tip of the eternal iceberg. Yes, ETERNITY is that big that 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 years is less than one drop in a vast ocean of eternal time.

OK, so maybe a trillion BTUs was too small. Well, a Quadrillion takes 10 more years to get to 1 BTU. A Quintilian takes 10 more years (60 total). Still just the blink of an eternal eye. A Quintilian Quintilian BTUs takes 120 years to get to 1.

In fact, no matter how big you make the initial BTUs, it always gets to 1, then less than 1, at some point. And then the rest of eternity is no suffering. None. And no matter how long it takes to get to 1 BTU, the rest of ETERNITY is INFINITELY longer than the comparatively short blink-of-an-eye number of years it took to get to 1 BTU - no matter how big your initial starting value.

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