balancing of the scales
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04-04-2013, 12:37 PM
RE: balancing of the scales
(04-04-2013 12:10 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(04-04-2013 12:07 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  Hitler would always be enduring pain, but it would lessen over time. You had it right up until you said for most of eternity "no pain".


Pain less than threshold awareness. Essentially no pain.

If Hitler is unaware of the pain then he is not suffering from it. Since God judged that Hitler should suffer X amount of pain it implies God, as part of His judgement, would make Hitler aware of any amount of pain.

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04-04-2013, 12:40 PM
RE: balancing of the scales
(04-04-2013 12:37 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(04-04-2013 12:10 PM)Chas Wrote:  Pain less than threshold awareness. Essentially no pain.

If Hitler is unaware of the pain then he is not suffering from it. Since God judged that Hitler should suffer X amount of pain it implies God, as part of His judgement, would make Hitler aware of any amount of pain.

You still have the infinite regression problem a finite resource cannot become infinite it will run out and when you are dealing with eternity it will always last much much less than the time it does not exist.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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04-04-2013, 12:41 PM
RE: balancing of the scales
(04-04-2013 12:11 PM)Phaedrus Wrote:  Numerator. Not denominator. Here, let me show it to you in equations:

x = R(>0, <0)
x / ∞ = Undefined, but with a limit approaching zero


As for ∞ / ∞, it is also Undefined. A proof:

∞ / ∞ = 1

∞ * (1 / ∞) = 1

1 / ∞ = Undefined

∞ * Undefined = 1

∞ / ∞ = Undefined, with no limit



Basically the entire thing falls apart the instant you apply maths to it. Your geometric regression sequence outlined in the first post technically outlines a "finite" amount of punishment over an infinite period; however it approaches zero with extreme rapidity and would soon decrease below the pain threshold of any human. Making the pain freeze at the edge of the threshold would still result in an infinite punishment.

The finite amount of pain is not being decided by 0 in equal parts so your criticism fails.

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04-04-2013, 12:44 PM
RE: balancing of the scales
Really HJ? This is what you come up with? The mathematical examples above show that any set punishment dispersed over eternity is inconsequential. My 4th grader could tear this idea a new one. Just walk away from this one and try something else.
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04-04-2013, 12:45 PM
RE: balancing of the scales
(04-04-2013 12:40 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  You still have the infinite regression problem a finite resource cannot become infinite it will run out and when you are dealing with eternity it will always last much much less than the time it does not exist.

Only if that resource is quantized. Non quantized resources can be stretched for eternity. I believe Freeman Dyson wrote a paper about a hypothetical advanced civilization that could use a finite amount of energy to make an infinite amount of thoughts.

Google Dyson's eternal intelligence

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04-04-2013, 12:59 PM
RE: balancing of the scales
(04-04-2013 12:45 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(04-04-2013 12:40 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  You still have the infinite regression problem a finite resource cannot become infinite it will run out and when you are dealing with eternity it will always last much much less than the time it does not exist.

Only if that resource is quantized. Non quantized resources can be stretched for eternity. I believe Freeman Dyson wrote a paper about a hypothetical advanced civilization that could use a finite amount of energy to make an infinite amount of thoughts.

Google Dyson's eternal intelligence

Ok I'm done you have been shown your mathematical error several times and at this point are just being contrary for it's own sake.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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04-04-2013, 01:11 PM
RE: balancing of the scales
(04-04-2013 12:59 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(04-04-2013 12:45 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  Only if that resource is quantized. Non quantized resources can be stretched for eternity. I believe Freeman Dyson wrote a paper about a hypothetical advanced civilization that could use a finite amount of energy to make an infinite amount of thoughts.

Google Dyson's eternal intelligence


Ok I'm done you have been shown your mathematical error several times and at this point are just being contrary for it's own sake.

There is no error in my thinking, Yours is errant. Any finite number can be divided into infinite parts and while those parts might approach 0 values they would never arrive at 0.

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04-04-2013, 01:20 PM
RE: balancing of the scales
You are correct, assuming the simple fact of being in hell is not a punishment in itself.

For example: Living in a place full of fire and lava, and with thousands of little demons fucking with you would indeed count as punishment and in my view invalidate the point.
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04-04-2013, 01:22 PM
RE: balancing of the scales
Your notion is null and void because scripture states that it will be eternal torment.

Revelation 20:10, 15
10 And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
15 And if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

Matthew 25:46
“These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

Matthew 13:50
and will throw them into the furnace of fire; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

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04-04-2013, 01:23 PM
RE: balancing of the scales
Also, you can't compare a finite number next to an infinite number.

Any number compared to infinity is 0.

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