balancing of the scales
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04-04-2013, 02:27 PM
RE: balancing of the scales
(04-04-2013 02:11 PM)fstratzero Wrote:  
(04-04-2013 11:49 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  A lot of atheists here have a problem with eternal damnation. They think it is unfair to punish somebody for eternity. Their thinking goes like this: Hitler, as bad as his actions were, his actions were finite so it would be unfair to give him an infinite amount of punishment. What these atheists fail to realize is that a finite amount of punishment can be spread over an inifinte amount of time.

Example: Suppose God judged Hitler and found that for his crimes against humanity Hitler deserves to endure X amount of pain. God then decides that the finite amount of pain Hitler is to endure be spread over an infinite time period. So God commands Lucifer that each year Hitler is in hell Hitler is to recieve only half of X. If X starts out as 1 trillion BTUs of heat or pain, Lucifer only dispenses a half trillion BTUs in the first year Hitler is in hell....that leaves Hitler with half a trillion BTUs to endure to satisfy his punishment. However, in the next year Lucifer only dispense a quarter trillion BTUs, in the third year Lucifer only dispenses an eighth and so on and so forth. Hitler never gets out of hell, his finite punishment goes on for eternity.

Here is evidence that your assertion is indeed false.

Matthew 3:12
"His winnowing fan is in His hand, and He will thoroughly clean out His threshing floor, and gather His wheat into the barn; but He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire." (NKJV)

Matthew 13:41–42
The Son of Man will send his angels, and they will remove from his Kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. And the angels will throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. (NLT)

Matthew 13:50
... throwing the wicked into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. (NLT)

Revelation 20:15
And anyone whose name was not found recorded in the Book of Life was thrown into the lake of fire. (NLT)

Luke 16:24 And he called out, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus to dip the end of his finger in water and cool my tongue, for I am in anguish in this flame.’

Revelation 19:20 And the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who in its presence had done the signs by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped its image. These two were thrown alive into the lake of fire that burns with sulfur.

Revelation 20:10 And they marched up over the broad plain of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city, but fire came down from heaven and consumed them, and the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

I'm not describing hell so your quotes are moot. I only used hellish imagery to make my point because you guys are familiar with it.

Vosur, Anjele, Hanoff.....have you learned nothing in my absence?
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04-04-2013, 02:30 PM
RE: balancing of the scales
(04-04-2013 01:54 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(04-04-2013 01:34 PM)Techgorilla Wrote:  Can it really be called punishment then?

You are basically granting Hitler eternal life in exchange for a couple of decades of pain. I agree those decades of pain would be punishment, but the rest of it can be hardly categorized as such. I don't see how small and imperceptible amounts of pain for the rest of your life can be considered punishment.

If humans are created as eternal brings already, it is not an exchange of a couple of decades of pain for eternal life.

I suppose you've never studied different methods of torture that appear on the surface as easy, lame, or not that bad.

Water boarding, sleep deprivation, sensory deprivation, tickle torture, seem pretty tame. Over time how ever they cause intense suffering and insanity.

Now you are talking an eternity of minute punishment which is torture by definition and no less evil. It might even be more perverse than the simple lake of fire.

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04-04-2013, 02:35 PM
RE: balancing of the scales
Is sitting in a slightly uncomfortable chair for all eternity punishment? Because that's still millions of times worse than what you're describing, Blo Jobs.

E 2 = (mc 2)2 + (pc )2
614C → 714N + e + ̅νe
2 K(s) + 2 H2O(l) → 2 KOH(aq) + H2 (g) + 196 kJ/mol
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04-04-2013, 02:37 PM
RE: balancing of the scales
(04-04-2013 02:27 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(04-04-2013 02:11 PM)fstratzero Wrote:  Here is evidence that your assertion is indeed false.

Matthew 3:12
"His winnowing fan is in His hand, and He will thoroughly clean out His threshing floor, and gather His wheat into the barn; but He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire." (NKJV)

Matthew 13:41–42
The Son of Man will send his angels, and they will remove from his Kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. And the angels will throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. (NLT)

Matthew 13:50
... throwing the wicked into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. (NLT)

Revelation 20:15
And anyone whose name was not found recorded in the Book of Life was thrown into the lake of fire. (NLT)

Luke 16:24 And he called out, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus to dip the end of his finger in water and cool my tongue, for I am in anguish in this flame.’

Revelation 19:20 And the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who in its presence had done the signs by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped its image. These two were thrown alive into the lake of fire that burns with sulfur.

Revelation 20:10 And they marched up over the broad plain of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city, but fire came down from heaven and consumed them, and the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

I'm not describing hell so your quotes are moot. I only used hellish imagery to make my point because you guys are familiar with it.

No, the quotes are definitely not moot. They describe the intensity of the pain in hell; likewise, it also says that the intensity doesn't change.

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04-04-2013, 02:37 PM
RE: balancing of the scales
Describing a scenario of pain, torture, punishment, and time for a place that can't be demonstrated to exist is a mental circle-jerk, at best.

Hitler gets some distribution of heat, that is apparently equivalent to pain, over the course of infinity. And you know this because?...

And it matters because?...

And Einstein gets the same thing and it's fair because?...

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04-04-2013, 02:39 PM
RE: balancing of the scales
(04-04-2013 02:13 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(04-04-2013 02:11 PM)fstratzero Wrote:  Here is evidence that your assertion is indeed false.

Matthew 3:12
"His winnowing fan is in His hand, and He will thoroughly clean out His threshing floor, and gather His wheat into the barn; but He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire." (NKJV)

Matthew 13:41–42
The Son of Man will send his angels, and they will remove from his Kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. And the angels will throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. (NLT)

Matthew 13:50
... throwing the wicked into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. (NLT)

Revelation 20:15
And anyone whose name was not found recorded in the Book of Life was thrown into the lake of fire. (NLT)

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I guess it's what I get for replying to a guy I have on ignore. Didn't notice it was his thread til I jumped in and saw people replying to his inane OP, and then I couldn't help myself, had to reply. I think BlowMe probably has me on ignore too.

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04-04-2013, 02:42 PM
RE: balancing of the scales
Updated. . . . . nevermind. The topic is SO void anyway.
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04-04-2013, 02:42 PM
RE: balancing of the scales
(04-04-2013 02:37 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(04-04-2013 02:27 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  I'm not describing hell so your quotes are moot. I only used hellish imagery to make my point because you guys are familiar with it.

No, the quotes are definitely not moot. They describe the intensity of the pain in hell; likewise, it also says that the intensity doesn't change.

They are moot because I am not making a point about hell. My point is that a finite punishment can be made to last an eternity....i simply used hellish imagary to make the point bevause this audience is familiar with it. What do your quotes have to do with my point? Nothing.....therefore your quotes are moot in the context of this conversation.

Vosur, Anjele, Hanoff.....have you learned nothing in my absence?
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04-04-2013, 02:44 PM
RE: balancing of the scales
(04-04-2013 02:35 PM)Phaedrus Wrote:  Is sitting in a slightly uncomfortable chair for all eternity punishment? Because that's still millions of times worse than what you're describing, Blo Jobs.

This entire thread has reminded me of the Tortoise and the hare fallacy. In that it is a very dishonest view of the mathematics. A small non-zero number for the sake of perception is 0 and once you drop below the threshold it doesn't really matter how far you can stretch the math out (it is never infinite by the way).

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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04-04-2013, 02:44 PM
RE: balancing of the scales
(04-04-2013 11:49 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  A lot of atheists here have a problem with eternal damnation. They think it is unfair to punish somebody for eternity. Their thinking goes like this: Hitler, as bad as his actions were, his actions were finite so it would be unfair to give him an infinite amount of punishment. What these atheists fail to realize is that a finite amount of punishment can be spread over an inifinte amount of time.

Example: Suppose God judged Hitler and found that for his crimes against humanity Hitler deserves to endure X amount of pain. God then decides that the finite amount of pain Hitler is to endure be spread over an infinite time period. So God commands Lucifer that each year Hitler is in hell Hitler is to recieve only half of X. If X starts out as 1 trillion BTUs of heat or pain, Lucifer only dispenses a half trillion BTUs in the first year Hitler is in hell....that leaves Hitler with half a trillion BTUs to endure to satisfy his punishment. However, in the next year Lucifer only dispense a quarter trillion BTUs, in the third year Lucifer only dispenses an eighth and so on and so forth. Hitler never gets out of hell, his finite punishment goes on for eternity.
Well, I know other posters have said this simple because it is so obvious, but I'm not going to read every post so I feel compelled to say it again; atheists have trouble with eternal damnation because it pretty much requires the belief in a god, and since atheists...

Your analysis fails to pass other elementary issues of critical thinking, too.
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