being atheist
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06-11-2016, 05:28 PM
RE: being atheist
(06-11-2016 11:54 AM)Praying Birds Wrote:  
(06-11-2016 06:28 AM)Chas Wrote:  Therefore everything that doesn't exist exists? Consider

You can not think of something totally not existing.

Yes, I can. Invisible sparkly pink unicorns do not exist. The idea of them does not change that fact.

Quote:Yet it's also a matter of locality.

Meaning what?

Quote:Also did I not say I still exist, I said my non-existence would exist which is characterized through the lack of me (to be a little more precise).

Your non-existence no more exists than the non-existence of millions of unknown, nameless people does.
What may exist is evidence of your former existence and memories of your existence. Eventually, those will no longer exist.

Quote:Without me never being in a world there can not ever be a lack of me there. Yet I am part of existence now and probably will cease to exist later.

There is a lack of all the people who never existed but might have.
You will most certainly cease to exist later.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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07-11-2016, 10:37 AM
RE: being atheist
(06-11-2016 05:28 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(06-11-2016 11:54 AM)Praying Birds Wrote:  You can not think of something totally not existing.

Yes, I can. Invisible sparkly pink unicorns do not exist. The idea of them does not change that fact.

Quote:Yet it's also a matter of locality.

Meaning what?

Quote:Also did I not say I still exist, I said my non-existence would exist which is characterized through the lack of me (to be a little more precise).

Your non-existence no more exists than the non-existence of millions of unknown, nameless people does.
What may exist is evidence of your former existence and memories of your existence. Eventually, those will no longer exist.

Quote:Without me never being in a world there can not ever be a lack of me there. Yet I am part of existence now and probably will cease to exist later.

There is a lack of all the people who never existed but might have.
You will most certainly cease to exist later.

So chess lacks of the "prince" or the "priest" figure? It certainly does not as those figures (besides they don't even exist) do not belong into the game. Same goes with an engine: Is it lacking a yellow flower? No, it's not as a yellow flower does not only not belong to the engine as it works perfectly fine without it but it also wouldnt change anything except you would put it in there in a disruptive way trying to disrupt the way the engine works. There can never be a lack of something not belonging somewhere.

As i mentioned earlier the concept needs some love as "non-existence" is misguiding in that what you seem to have understood it. Of course a lot of unknown people dwell in absence what you could call "non-existence" but to my understanding they are just not here, have never been and therefore this world can never lack of them as they don't have ever been here.


Also: everything we can think of and speak of exists. It is another question what it is.
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07-11-2016, 10:53 AM
RE: being atheist
(07-11-2016 10:37 AM)Praying Birds Wrote:  There can never be a lack of something not belonging somewhere.

And who or what determines where something belongs?

(07-11-2016 10:37 AM)Praying Birds Wrote:  Of course a lot of unknown people dwell in absence what you could call "non-existence" but to my understanding they are just not here, have never been and therefore this world can never lack of them as they don't have ever been here.

This statement is asinine. You are muddying the waters by playing with definitions.

Just because you are not aware of something does not mean that it does not exist.

You are advocating solipsism.

(07-11-2016 10:37 AM)Praying Birds Wrote:  Also: everything we can think of and speak of exists. It is another question what it is.

Absolutely not. Just because we conceive of something does not mean it actually exists.

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08-11-2016, 03:28 PM
RE: being atheist
(07-11-2016 10:37 AM)Praying Birds Wrote:  
(06-11-2016 05:28 PM)Chas Wrote:  Yes, I can. Invisible sparkly pink unicorns do not exist. The idea of them does not change that fact.


Meaning what?


Your non-existence no more exists than the non-existence of millions of unknown, nameless people does.
What may exist is evidence of your former existence and memories of your existence. Eventually, those will no longer exist.


There is a lack of all the people who never existed but might have.
You will most certainly cease to exist later.

So chess lacks of the "prince" or the "priest" figure? It certainly does not as those figures (besides they don't even exist) do not belong into the game. Same goes with an engine: Is it lacking a yellow flower? No, it's not as a yellow flower does not only not belong to the engine as it works perfectly fine without it but it also wouldnt change anything except you would put it in there in a disruptive way trying to disrupt the way the engine works. There can never be a lack of something not belonging somewhere.

As i mentioned earlier the concept needs some love as "non-existence" is misguiding in that what you seem to have understood it. Of course a lot of unknown people dwell in absence what you could call "non-existence" but to my understanding they are just not here, have never been and therefore this world can never lack of them as they don't have ever been here.


Also: everything we can think of and speak of exists. It is another question what it is.

I've already spent plenty of time not existing with very little negative effects. I would have been an expert at not existing too, if it wasn't for that damn existing part.

Well i'm sure i'll get right back on the horse, at some point. Just like riding a bike.

Don't Live each day like it's your last. Live each day like you have 541 days after that one where every choice you make will have lasting implications to you and the world around you. ~ Tim Minchin
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08-11-2016, 11:34 PM
RE: being atheist
(07-11-2016 10:37 AM)Praying Birds Wrote:  
(06-11-2016 05:28 PM)Chas Wrote:  Yes, I can. Invisible sparkly pink unicorns do not exist. The idea of them does not change that fact.


Meaning what?


Your non-existence no more exists than the non-existence of millions of unknown, nameless people does.
What may exist is evidence of your former existence and memories of your existence. Eventually, those will no longer exist.


There is a lack of all the people who never existed but might have.
You will most certainly cease to exist later.

So chess lacks of the "prince" or the "priest" figure? It certainly does not as those figures (besides they don't even exist) do not belong into the game. Same goes with an engine: Is it lacking a yellow flower? No, it's not as a yellow flower does not only not belong to the engine as it works perfectly fine without it but it also wouldnt change anything except you would put it in there in a disruptive way trying to disrupt the way the engine works. There can never be a lack of something not belonging somewhere.

As i mentioned earlier the concept needs some love as "non-existence" is misguiding in that what you seem to have understood it. Of course a lot of unknown people dwell in absence what you could call "non-existence" but to my understanding they are just not here, have never been and therefore this world can never lack of them as they don't have ever been here.

Could you rephrase that in logical, grammatical English? Thanks.

Quote:Also: everything we can think of and speak of exists. It is another question what it is.

No, that is absurd. If I think of something then that thought exists. It does not make the thing exist.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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09-11-2016, 05:06 AM
RE: being atheist
(07-11-2016 10:37 AM)Praying Birds Wrote:  As i mentioned earlier the concept needs some love as "non-existence" is misguiding in that what you seem to have understood it. Of course a lot of unknown people dwell in absence what you could call "non-existence" but to my understanding they are just not here, have never been and therefore this world can never lack of them as they don't have ever been here.

Also: everything we can think of and speak of exists. It is another question what it is.

This takes my personal award for the most nonsensical and ill-conceived bit of bullshit I've seen for a long time. I'm uncertain as to whether you're actually serious, or whether you're just a very persistent troll.

I'm a creationist... I believe that man created God.
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11-11-2016, 11:35 PM (This post was last modified: 11-11-2016 11:40 PM by Praying Birds.)
RE: being atheist
Without the existence of air there could never be a vaccuum. A vaccuum is defined by the absence of air and characterized through it. Without air being existent in the first place there could never be an absence.

And thanks for calling me out on my English skills. I am not a native speaker and I think I can express myself in a proper manner very well though.

Also do I get the feel that the only reason you are argueing towards me like this (in THAT aggressive way) is because of my accounts name.

It is the name of my music project, I am not a religious person and by praying I mean something totally different.



Also does everything I said in this discussion NOT represent any total state of my opinion. I am thinking out loud and I am open to agree at any point that I am wrong Smile

I discuss not to overthrow other people with my opinion but to grow by the exchange of positions and the constant creation that comes with it assembling a concept together or totally dismissing it.
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11-11-2016, 11:44 PM
RE: being atheist
(11-11-2016 11:35 PM)Praying Birds Wrote:  Without the existence of air there could never be a vaccuum. A vaccuum is defined by the absence of air and characterized through it. Without air being existent in the first place there could never be an absence.

And thanks for calling me out on my English skills. I am not a native speaker and I think I can express myself in a proper manner very well though.

Also do I get the feel that the only reason you are argueing towards me like this (in THAT aggressive way) is because of my accounts name.

It is the name of my music project, I am not a religious person and by praying I mean something totally different.



Also does everything I said in this discussion NOT represent any total state of my opinion. I am thinking out loud and I am open to agree at any point that I am wrong Smile

I discuss not to overthrow other people with my opinion but to grow by the exchange of positions and the constant creation that comes with it assembling a concept together or totally dismissing it.

Your name has nothing to do with it. It's just that they're allergic to the nonsensical bullshit that you're spraying all over your posts.
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12-11-2016, 12:06 AM
RE: being atheist
(11-11-2016 11:44 PM)Dark Wanderer Wrote:  
(11-11-2016 11:35 PM)Praying Birds Wrote:  Without the existence of air there could never be a vaccuum. A vaccuum is defined by the absence of air and characterized through it. Without air being existent in the first place there could never be an absence.

And thanks for calling me out on my English skills. I am not a native speaker and I think I can express myself in a proper manner very well though.

Also do I get the feel that the only reason you are argueing towards me like this (in THAT aggressive way) is because of my accounts name.

It is the name of my music project, I am not a religious person and by praying I mean something totally different.

Thanks for calling my thinkings 'bullshit'. Probably helps the positive discussion-atmosphere a lot.


Also does everything I said in this discussion NOT represent any total state of my opinion. I am thinking out loud and I am open to agree at any point that I am wrong Smile

I discuss not to overthrow other people with my opinion but to grow by the exchange of positions and the constant creation that comes with it assembling a concept together or totally dismissing it.

Your name has nothing to do with it. It's just that they're allergic to the nonsensical bullshit that you're spraying all over your posts.

Thanks for calling my thinkings 'bullshit'. Probably helps the positive discussion-atmosphere a lot.
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12-11-2016, 01:13 AM
RE: being atheist
(11-11-2016 11:35 PM)Praying Birds Wrote:  Without the existence of air there could never be a vaccuum. A vaccuum is defined by the absence of air and characterized through it. Without air being existent in the first place there could never be an absence.

And thanks for calling me out on my English skills. I am not a native speaker and I think I can express myself in a proper manner very well though.

Also do I get the feel that the only reason you are argueing towards me like this (in THAT aggressive way) is because of my accounts name.

It is the name of my music project, I am not a religious person and by praying I mean something totally different.



Also does everything I said in this discussion NOT represent any total state of my opinion. I am thinking out loud and I am open to agree at any point that I am wrong Smile

I discuss not to overthrow other people with my opinion but to grow by the exchange of positions and the constant creation that comes with it assembling a concept together or totally dismissing it.

If you find Chas's questions to be aggressive than you're a moronic piece of shit.

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