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07-11-2015, 05:32 PM (This post was last modified: 07-11-2015 05:41 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: ben carson?
(07-11-2015 04:28 PM)Alla Wrote:  Shame on them for being biased.

Yeah. They're not like you all open-minded and receptive to ideas you don't agree with and shit. Thank God Idaho's 4 electoral college votes have zero impact on any Presidential election.

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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07-11-2015, 05:39 PM
RE: ben carson?
(07-11-2015 05:21 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  
(07-11-2015 05:12 PM)dancefortwo Wrote:  Alla, I don't know how old you are but I remember when the republican party was not taken over by the religious right. The Republicans have been pulled so far to the right by the teabaggers that even fairly conservative presidents from the past wouldn't be able to get elected today. Even Ronald Reagan would be too liberal for the republican party these days.

You're probably too young to remember a man named Barry Goldwater (well, I am too, believe it or not) but Barry Goldwater was a very, very conservative Republican who ran against Lyndon Johnson in 1964 and lost in a landslide. He was a religious man but warned the Republican party about religion getting mixed up with politics. That was five decades ago, way back when.

“Mark my word, if and when these preachers get control of the [Republican] party, and they're sure trying to do so, it's going to be a terrible damn problem. Frankly, these people frighten me. Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can't and won't compromise. I know, I've tried to deal with them.”

It's like Goldwater had a damned crystal ball. Truer words were never said. The mixing of religion and politics is going to, and already has, fractured the Republican party. Maybe you're not a Republican, but if you are I'd take a little advice from Goldwater and look for politicians who don't mix the two, otherwise the Republicans are cooked.

I'm not sure how you are coming to this conclusion. I'm as anti religion as any of the atheists here, but I know for a fact that republicans aren't going anywhere.

For some reason, democrats are only focused on winning the presidency. They think the president controls everything, like a king or something. If you take a look around the country, democrats are only interested in the top spot. They aren't doing anything else.

While democrats show up in droves for presidential elections, they are getting smashed across the board in congressional elections, governors races and state legislatures. They have a few state strongholds, like ultra liberal New York, California, Hawaii, Washington, Oregon and Nevada. But the rest of the country is rapidly turning red.

Consider this:

Republicans now hold 64% of the state governor positions.
Republicans have total or split control of 76% of state legislatures.
Democrats have lost 913 state legislature seats since 2010.
Republicans have gained 69 seats in the House of Reps and 13 in the senate since 2008.
Democrats have unified control (the governor and state legislative majority) in only 7 states. Republicans have 25 states under unified control.

It doesn't matter if Hillary gets elected. Or Bernie Sanders. Or Kermit the Frog.

Their agenda won't go anywhere. No laws will be passed. A democrat in the oval office will be a lame duck. The democrats, that is the leadership, politicians, and their voters, are watching everything but the presidency turn red, and if they stay home playing video games in November 2016, they'll lose that too.

This has always been true for the Republicans. They have always done well in local elections in the past, even during the Roosevelt war years. What's different between the Republicans of today and twenty years ago is the infiltration of the conservative religious right into the party and as the Barry Goldwater's quote indicated ..."Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can't and won't compromise." It just about drove John Boehner to distraction.

What I see in the Republican party is that as the religious right makes its strident mark within the party the rest of the country is becoming less religious. It's going to be a problem for them, especially on a national level.

Shakespeare's Comedy of Errors.... on Donald J. Trump:

He is deformed, crooked, old, and sere,
Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
Vicious, ungentle, foolish, blunt, unkind,
Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
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07-11-2015, 05:55 PM
RE: ben carson?
(07-11-2015 05:21 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  
(07-11-2015 05:12 PM)dancefortwo Wrote:  Alla, I don't know how old you are but I remember when the republican party was not taken over by the religious right. The Republicans have been pulled so far to the right by the teabaggers that even fairly conservative presidents from the past wouldn't be able to get elected today. Even Ronald Reagan would be too liberal for the republican party these days.

You're probably too young to remember a man named Barry Goldwater (well, I am too, believe it or not) but Barry Goldwater was a very, very conservative Republican who ran against Lyndon Johnson in 1964 and lost in a landslide. He was a religious man but warned the Republican party about religion getting mixed up with politics. That was five decades ago, way back when.

“Mark my word, if and when these preachers get control of the [Republican] party, and they're sure trying to do so, it's going to be a terrible damn problem. Frankly, these people frighten me. Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can't and won't compromise. I know, I've tried to deal with them.”

It's like Goldwater had a damned crystal ball. Truer words were never said. The mixing of religion and politics is going to, and already has, fractured the Republican party. Maybe you're not a Republican, but if you are I'd take a little advice from Goldwater and look for politicians who don't mix the two, otherwise the Republicans are cooked.

I'm not sure how you are coming to this conclusion. I'm as anti religion as any of the atheists here, but I know for a fact that republicans aren't going anywhere.

For some reason, democrats are only focused on winning the presidency. They think the president controls everything, like a king or something. If you take a look around the country, democrats are only interested in the top spot. They aren't doing anything else.

While democrats show up in droves for presidential elections, they are getting smashed across the board in congressional elections, governors races and state legislatures. They have a few state strongholds, like ultra liberal New York, California, Hawaii, Washington, Oregon and Nevada. But the rest of the country is rapidly turning red.

Consider this:

Republicans now hold 64% of the state governor positions.
Republicans have total or split control of 76% of state legislatures.
Democrats have lost 913 state legislature seats since 2010.
Republicans have gained 69 seats in the House of Reps and 13 in the senate since 2008.
Democrats have unified control (the governor and state legislative majority) in only 7 states. Republicans have 25 states under unified control.

It doesn't matter if Hillary gets elected. Or Bernie Sanders. Or Kermit the Frog.

Their agenda won't go anywhere. No laws will be passed. A democrat in the oval office will be a lame duck. The democrats, that is the leadership, politicians, and their voters, are watching everything but the presidency turn red, and if they stay home playing video games in November 2016, they'll lose that too.

And you think federally elected Republicans in the current climate, even if they control everything, are going to magically start acting as a unified, comprehensive whole again? Unless you haven't noticed, based on the rise of anti-establishment candidates like Trump and the "bomb-throwers" fucking things up in the far right in the House, there is a serious disconnect between the Republican party elite and the GOP electorate and far right party actors that represent them. These are widening divides in a party that has several dissimilar groups holding different, conflicting interests becoming more and more radicalized. Yes, the Republicans are the kings of the grassroots and that won't be going away anytime soon in their heavily conservative districts, but beyond the local and state elections, Republicans are faltering at the national level where a unified direction is needed for functioning governance. They were unified before, but they sure as fuck aren't anymore, now it's the Democrats that are acting as a far more unified collective, and the splits in the Republican party are only going to continue growing if they don't reform their national agenda.

Michael Lind, a former neoconservative, recently posted one of the best articles I've ever read detailing the current ideological dysfunction of the Republicans in Washington, it's a good read, and explains why your cozy vision that the Republicans are doing fine is wrong, despite their gains over the past several years in the local and state offices and Congress. Add on top of that the fact that the conservative, white, fundamentalist Christians that the GOP so heavily rely on for votes won't even be the most significant demographic in a few decades, and you've got a party that is dooming itself to irrelevance on the national scene. They might hold onto their conservative grassroots regions on the local level, but they will struggle to remain a power player in national politics in the long run if some transformations don't occur.

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07-11-2015, 06:30 PM
RE: ben carson?
(07-11-2015 05:55 PM)Tartarus Sauce Wrote:  
(07-11-2015 05:21 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  I'm not sure how you are coming to this conclusion. I'm as anti religion as any of the atheists here, but I know for a fact that republicans aren't going anywhere.

For some reason, democrats are only focused on winning the presidency. They think the president controls everything, like a king or something. If you take a look around the country, democrats are only interested in the top spot. They aren't doing anything else.

While democrats show up in droves for presidential elections, they are getting smashed across the board in congressional elections, governors races and state legislatures. They have a few state strongholds, like ultra liberal New York, California, Hawaii, Washington, Oregon and Nevada. But the rest of the country is rapidly turning red.

Consider this:

Republicans now hold 64% of the state governor positions.
Republicans have total or split control of 76% of state legislatures.
Democrats have lost 913 state legislature seats since 2010.
Republicans have gained 69 seats in the House of Reps and 13 in the senate since 2008.
Democrats have unified control (the governor and state legislative majority) in only 7 states. Republicans have 25 states under unified control.

It doesn't matter if Hillary gets elected. Or Bernie Sanders. Or Kermit the Frog.

Their agenda won't go anywhere. No laws will be passed. A democrat in the oval office will be a lame duck. The democrats, that is the leadership, politicians, and their voters, are watching everything but the presidency turn red, and if they stay home playing video games in November 2016, they'll lose that too.

And you think federally elected Republicans in the current climate, even if they control everything, are going to magically start acting as a unified, comprehensive whole again? Unless you haven't noticed, based on the rise of anti-establishment candidates like Trump and the "bomb-throwers" fucking things up in the far right in the House, there is a serious disconnect between the Republican party elite and the GOP electorate and far right party actors that represent them. These are widening divides in a party that has several dissimilar groups holding different, conflicting interests becoming more and more radicalized. Yes, the Republicans are the kings of the grassroots and that won't be going away anytime soon in their heavily conservative districts, but beyond the local and state elections, Republicans are faltering at the national level where a unified direction is needed for functioning governance. They were unified before, but they sure as fuck aren't anymore, now it's the Democrats that are acting as a far more unified collective, and the splits in the Republican party are only going to continue growing if they don't reform their national agenda.

Michael Lind, a former neoconservative, recently posted one of the best articles I've ever read detailing the current ideological dysfunction of the Republicans in Washington, it's a good read, and explains why your cozy vision that the Republicans are doing fine is wrong, despite their gains over the past several years in the local and state offices and Congress. Add on top of that the fact that the conservative, white, fundamentalist Christians that the GOP so heavily rely on for votes won't even be the most significant demographic in a few decades, and you've got a party that is dooming itself to irrelevance on the national scene. They might hold onto their conservative grassroots regions on the local level, but they will struggle to remain a power player in national politics in the long run if some transformations don't occur.

You're right, long term. I was only referring to the next 4-8 years. A Democrat might win both presidential elections. But all this talk about what they're going to do, taxes, gun control, minimum wage, blah blah blah isn't going anywhere.

My fear is that in the future, 15-25 years from now, the christians find themselves in the minority, losing election after election. Will they go nuts, unite, take up arms (they're probably the most heavily armed group in the world) and wipe out the "infidels" in the name of their holy book?

"Evil will always triumph over good, because good is dumb." - Lord Dark Helmet
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07-11-2015, 06:39 PM (This post was last modified: 07-11-2015 06:53 PM by Tartarus Sauce.)
RE: ben carson?
(07-11-2015 06:30 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  
(07-11-2015 05:55 PM)Tartarus Sauce Wrote:  And you think federally elected Republicans in the current climate, even if they control everything, are going to magically start acting as a unified, comprehensive whole again? Unless you haven't noticed, based on the rise of anti-establishment candidates like Trump and the "bomb-throwers" fucking things up in the far right in the House, there is a serious disconnect between the Republican party elite and the GOP electorate and far right party actors that represent them. These are widening divides in a party that has several dissimilar groups holding different, conflicting interests becoming more and more radicalized. Yes, the Republicans are the kings of the grassroots and that won't be going away anytime soon in their heavily conservative districts, but beyond the local and state elections, Republicans are faltering at the national level where a unified direction is needed for functioning governance. They were unified before, but they sure as fuck aren't anymore, now it's the Democrats that are acting as a far more unified collective, and the splits in the Republican party are only going to continue growing if they don't reform their national agenda.

Michael Lind, a former neoconservative, recently posted one of the best articles I've ever read detailing the current ideological dysfunction of the Republicans in Washington, it's a good read, and explains why your cozy vision that the Republicans are doing fine is wrong, despite their gains over the past several years in the local and state offices and Congress. Add on top of that the fact that the conservative, white, fundamentalist Christians that the GOP so heavily rely on for votes won't even be the most significant demographic in a few decades, and you've got a party that is dooming itself to irrelevance on the national scene. They might hold onto their conservative grassroots regions on the local level, but they will struggle to remain a power player in national politics in the long run if some transformations don't occur.

You're right, long term. I was only referring to the next 4-8 years. A Democrat might win both presidential elections. But all this talk about what they're going to do, taxes, gun control, minimum wage, blah blah blah isn't going anywhere.

My fear is that in the future, 15-25 years from now, the christians find themselves in the minority, losing election after election. Will they go nuts, unite, take up arms (they're probably the most heavily armed group in the world) and wipe out the "infidels" in the name of their holy book?

Then I misunderstood you, my apologies for that.

You're right, they aren't going to get as much done as their supporters hope, but in this war of polarized political attrition, the Democrats are going to win in the long haul. The Democratic constituency are far less likely to direct their vexation over political gridlocking at their own party officials, as opposed to the GOPs supporters who are already happily tearing into their own establishment. This is why Democrats are so focused on winning the presidency over everything else, if they can hold onto the top position then they can ride out the current storm to calmer waters. Although it's being predicted by the political analysts that whichever party wins the presidency this upcoming election cycle is also likely to grab control of the Senate, so Democrats could have that to look forward to as well.

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07-11-2015, 06:41 PM
RE: ben carson?
(07-11-2015 06:30 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  
(07-11-2015 05:55 PM)Tartarus Sauce Wrote:  And you think federally elected Republicans in the current climate, even if they control everything, are going to magically start acting as a unified, comprehensive whole again? Unless you haven't noticed, based on the rise of anti-establishment candidates like Trump and the "bomb-throwers" fucking things up in the far right in the House, there is a serious disconnect between the Republican party elite and the GOP electorate and far right party actors that represent them. These are widening divides in a party that has several dissimilar groups holding different, conflicting interests becoming more and more radicalized. Yes, the Republicans are the kings of the grassroots and that won't be going away anytime soon in their heavily conservative districts, but beyond the local and state elections, Republicans are faltering at the national level where a unified direction is needed for functioning governance. They were unified before, but they sure as fuck aren't anymore, now it's the Democrats that are acting as a far more unified collective, and the splits in the Republican party are only going to continue growing if they don't reform their national agenda.

Michael Lind, a former neoconservative, recently posted one of the best articles I've ever read detailing the current ideological dysfunction of the Republicans in Washington, it's a good read, and explains why your cozy vision that the Republicans are doing fine is wrong, despite their gains over the past several years in the local and state offices and Congress. Add on top of that the fact that the conservative, white, fundamentalist Christians that the GOP so heavily rely on for votes won't even be the most significant demographic in a few decades, and you've got a party that is dooming itself to irrelevance on the national scene. They might hold onto their conservative grassroots regions on the local level, but they will struggle to remain a power player in national politics in the long run if some transformations don't occur.

You're right, long term. I was only referring to the next 4-8 years. A Democrat might win both presidential elections. But all this talk about what they're going to do, taxes, gun control, minimum wage, blah blah blah isn't going anywhere.

My fear is that in the future, 15-25 years from now, the christians find themselves in the minority, losing election after election. Will they go nuts, unite, take up arms (they're probably the most heavily armed group in the world) and wipe out the "infidels" in the name of their holy book?

They might unite for a brief moment, but double-or-nothing they'll begin to schism after about five minutes.

Don't let those gnomes and their illusions get you down. They're just gnomes and illusions.

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07-11-2015, 06:44 PM
RE: ben carson?
(07-11-2015 05:55 PM)Tartarus Sauce Wrote:  
(07-11-2015 05:21 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  I'm not sure how you are coming to this conclusion. I'm as anti religion as any of the atheists here, but I know for a fact that republicans aren't going anywhere.

For some reason, democrats are only focused on winning the presidency. They think the president controls everything, like a king or something. If you take a look around the country, democrats are only interested in the top spot. They aren't doing anything else.

While democrats show up in droves for presidential elections, they are getting smashed across the board in congressional elections, governors races and state legislatures. They have a few state strongholds, like ultra liberal New York, California, Hawaii, Washington, Oregon and Nevada. But the rest of the country is rapidly turning red.

Consider this:

Republicans now hold 64% of the state governor positions.
Republicans have total or split control of 76% of state legislatures.
Democrats have lost 913 state legislature seats since 2010.
Republicans have gained 69 seats in the House of Reps and 13 in the senate since 2008.
Democrats have unified control (the governor and state legislative majority) in only 7 states. Republicans have 25 states under unified control.

It doesn't matter if Hillary gets elected. Or Bernie Sanders. Or Kermit the Frog.

Their agenda won't go anywhere. No laws will be passed. A democrat in the oval office will be a lame duck. The democrats, that is the leadership, politicians, and their voters, are watching everything but the presidency turn red, and if they stay home playing video games in November 2016, they'll lose that too.

And you think federally elected Republicans in the current climate, even if they control everything, are going to magically start acting as a unified, comprehensive whole again? Unless you haven't noticed, based on the rise of anti-establishment candidates like Trump and the "bomb-throwers" fucking things up in the far right in the House, there is a serious disconnect between the Republican party elite and the GOP electorate and far right party actors that represent them. These are widening divides in a party that has several dissimilar groups holding different, conflicting interests becoming more and more radicalized. Yes, the Republicans are the kings of the grassroots and that won't be going away anytime soon in their heavily conservative districts, but beyond the local and state elections, Republicans are faltering at the national level where a unified direction is needed for functioning governance. They were unified before, but they sure as fuck aren't anymore, now it's the Democrats that are acting as a far more unified collective, and the splits in the Republican party are only going to continue growing if they don't reform their national agenda.

Michael Lind, a former neoconservative, recently posted one of the best articles I've ever read detailing the current ideological dysfunction of the Republicans in Washington, it's a good read, and explains why your cozy vision that the Republicans are doing fine is wrong, despite their gains over the past several years in the local and state offices and Congress. Add on top of that the fact that the conservative, white, fundamentalist Christians that the GOP so heavily rely on for votes won't even be the most significant demographic in a few decades, and you've got a party that is dooming itself to irrelevance on the national scene. They might hold onto their conservative grassroots regions on the local level, but they will struggle to remain a power player in national politics in the long run if some transformations don't occur.

Very interesting article TS. I'm sending it to my husband and a couple other people.

Shakespeare's Comedy of Errors.... on Donald J. Trump:

He is deformed, crooked, old, and sere,
Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
Vicious, ungentle, foolish, blunt, unkind,
Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
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07-11-2015, 06:46 PM
RE: ben carson?
(07-11-2015 05:12 PM)dancefortwo Wrote:  
(07-11-2015 04:35 PM)Alla Wrote:  Sorry, I will check it out right now.

Alla, I don't know how old you are but I remember when the republican party was not taken over by the religious right. The Republicans have been pulled so far to the right by the teabaggers that even fairly conservative presidents from the past wouldn't be able to get elected today. Even Ronald Reagan would be too liberal for the republican party these days.

You're probably too young to remember a man named Barry Goldwater (well, I am too, believe it or not) but Barry Goldwater was a very, very conservative Republican who ran against Lyndon Johnson in 1964 and lost in a landslide. He was a religious man but warned the Republican party about religion getting mixed up with politics. That was five decades ago, way back when.

“Mark my word, if and when these preachers get control of the [Republican] party, and they're sure trying to do so, it's going to be a terrible damn problem. Frankly, these people frighten me. Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can't and won't compromise. I know, I've tried to deal with them.”

It's like Goldwater had a damned crystal ball. Truer words were never said. The mixing of religion and politics is going to, and already has, fractured the Republican party. Maybe you're not a Republican, but if you are I'd take a little advice from Goldwater and look for politicians who don't mix the two, otherwise the Republicans are cooked.

I understand your fear. If I was an atheist or agnostic, or didn't follow any particular religion I would be frightened, too.
But my point is that media is biased. In my understanding journalists are not suppose to be fair to those with whom they agree personally and not fair to those with whom they disagree personally.
That is all I say.
They are not fair to conservatives because they disagree with them.

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SHE PERSISTED WE RESISTED
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07-11-2015, 06:55 PM
RE: ben carson?
I see some bias towards Democrats and Liberals when I watch Fox News.
I even don't like when David Silverman was appearing at some programs he didn't have opportunity to say what he wanted to say.
And I see some other things I disagree with.

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07-11-2015, 07:03 PM
RE: ben carson?
(07-11-2015 04:47 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(07-11-2015 10:38 AM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Here's one.


And another.

There are no facts in the first reference that Ben Carson is lying.

3. The President Can Ignore The Supreme Court

That is incorrect. Either he is ignorant or lying.

5. Prison Proves That Being Gay Is A “Choice”
That is incorrect. Either he is ignorant or lying.

9. President Obama Is Engaged in a Leninist Plot To Destroy The Economy
That is incorrect. Either he is ignorant or lying.

10. President Obama is a “Psychopath”
That is incorrect. Either he is ignorant or lying. And for a medical doctor to say that is outrageous.

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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