brickwall Matthews 16:4 How would you respond.
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24-11-2012, 10:44 AM (This post was last modified: 24-11-2012 01:29 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: brickwall Matthews 16:4 How would you respond.
There is actually more to that quote. and it appears in more than one place.
The rest of it is that the only sign that will be given is the Sign of Jonah,
who was swallowed by a whale in attempting to, (obviously allegorically) run away from his authentic life.
In Matthew 12:38, (when the authors are "doing" the parables), there is a more expanded version.
The theme of "For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for me will find it." (Matthew 16:25), is one of the constant themes in Matthew. He's not really talking about a "sign', in the sense that the OP's "requestors" are actually using the request for a sign. In fact it is precisely the OPPOSITE.
The "sign" is allegory, and it's not about a fundamentalist, literalist, childish notion, as it's commonly used.
The authors apparently were more sophisticated, (in terms of literature, and allegory), than modern American fundies, who insist on taking Babble quotes out of context. The theme of giving up one's life, in order to actually gain it, is a common literary theme in many cultures, and philosophies.
I'd tell them to grow up, (and maybe go get an education).

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Isaiah 45:7 "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things" (KJV)

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24-11-2012, 11:08 AM
RE: brickwall Matthews 16:4 How would you respond.
(24-11-2012 10:43 AM)tikidoc Wrote:  
(24-11-2012 10:34 AM)tikidoc Wrote:  And if I'm dense and don't realize what you are getting at, can I PM you in a week or so for an explanation?
Oh. Nevermind. [Image: biggrin.gif]
lol

Sure you get the irony?

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24-11-2012, 11:46 AM
RE: brickwall Matthews 16:4 How would you respond.
(24-11-2012 11:08 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(24-11-2012 10:43 AM)tikidoc Wrote:  Oh. Nevermind. [Image: biggrin.gif]
lol

Sure you get the irony?


Wait for it ...

Irony in 3, 2, ...

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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24-11-2012, 11:59 AM
RE: brickwall Matthews 16:4 How would you respond.
(24-11-2012 11:46 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(24-11-2012 11:08 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  lol

Sure you get the irony?


Wait for it ...

Irony in 3, 2, ...
Yea, I got it, hence the "Nevermind." Big Grin
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24-11-2012, 01:06 PM
RE: brickwall Matthews 16:4 How would you respond.
I don't understand the use of signs in this allegory.

As a precursor to the last days?
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24-11-2012, 01:36 PM
RE: brickwall Matthews 16:4 How would you respond.
I would suggest that the use of allegory in this instance is "paradox".
For example, a soldier who gives up his life for his country, in loosing his life,
ultimately authenticates what is most important to himself.
He/she "gains" his/her *real* life, (allegorically), in giving it up.
The allegory in Matthew, (ie the "Sign of Jonah"), is THAT sort of paradox, I assume, from it's context.
(It has nothing to do with "end-times" IMHO).

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein Certified Ancient Astronaut Theorist
Isaiah 45:7 "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things" (KJV)

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24-11-2012, 01:36 PM
RE: brickwall Matthews 16:4 How would you respond.
(24-11-2012 01:06 PM)HealingApostate Wrote:  I don't understand the use of signs in this allegory.

As a precursor to the last days?
Ahh yes... the good ole "Sign of Jonah" debate.

This is what I understand about the verse:

The first mentions of the word "sign" is directed towards the Pharisees in that no matter what sign Jesus gives them they will not accept Him as the Messiah.

The "Sign of Jonah" is a foreshadowing of Israel's destruction if they don't repent and accept Christ as their Messiah. He parallels His current time with that of Jonah as the Pharisees knew what happened to their ancestors when they failed to repent - they were destroyed by the Assyrians.

He is telling them that the same fate will fall upon them from the hands of the Romans (which was fulfilled about 40 years later).

There are a lot of different interpretations of this, but to me, this one makes the most sense.

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