buh bye religion
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20-12-2014, 09:55 AM
buh bye religion
http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20141219...-disappear

good story, all things I already knew and I own Phil Zuckerman's book, Society without god which I highly recommend.

A small excerpt I liked from this story..

"Atheists must fight against all of that cultural and evolutionary baggage. Human beings naturally want to believe that they are a part of something bigger, that life isn’t completely futile. Our minds crave purpose and explanation. “With education, exposure to science and critical thinking, people might stop trusting their intuitions,” Norenzayan says. “But the intuitions are there.”

On the other hand, science – the system of choice that many atheists and non-believers look to for understanding the natural world – is not an easy cognitive pill to swallow. Science is about correcting System 1 biases, McCauley says. We must accept that the Earth spins, even though we never experience that sensation for ourselves. We must embrace the idea that evolution is utterly indifferent and that there is no ultimate design or purpose to the Universe, even though our intuition tells us differently. We also find it difficult to admit that we are wrong, to resist our own biases and to accept that truth as we understand it is ever changing as new empirical data are gathered and tested – all staples of science. “Science is cognitively unnatural – it’s difficult,” McCauley says. “Religion, on the other hand, is mostly something we don’t even have to learn because we already know it.”

“There’s evidence that religious thought is the path of least resistance,” Barrett adds. “You’d have to fundamentally change something about our humanity to get rid of religion.” This biological sticking point probably explains the fact that, although 20% of Americans are not affiliated with a church, 68% of them say that they still believe in God and 37% describe themselves as spiritual. Even without organised religion, they believe that some greater being or life force guides the world.

I love studying this stuff, the sociological and psychological side to why people believe such nonsense...

your thoughts?

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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20-12-2014, 10:03 AM (This post was last modified: 20-12-2014 10:37 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: buh bye religion
There's a big, (I found it difficult and had to *make* myself read it) book by the famous sociologist of religion, Robert Bellah titled "Religion in Human Evolution - From the Paleolithic to the Axial Age". He's a genius. You might like that.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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20-12-2014, 10:23 AM (This post was last modified: 20-12-2014 10:35 AM by Nurse.)
RE: buh bye religion
(20-12-2014 09:55 AM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  your thoughts?

Emotional appeal. I don't want my life to be ultimately meaningless, for it all to be for nothing. I don't like the thought that in a few generations my descendants won't even know my name. To think that all the hardships, kindness, achievements - it's ultimately pointless? In 70 years I'll be dead and gone.

Thinking that I might have the opportunity to continue to be is much more pleasant.

The reality of it all is causing some self reflection - if this is all I get, what do I want to change? What do I want out of this life? I'm figuring out the answer - and it's terrifying. The complacency of status quo is the much easier path to take. I'm trying to figure out obligations to others vs what is best for myself. Where to draw that line is awfully blurry, whereas religion would make it clear.

Edited to add: I guess what I'm trying to say is that religion makes it easier to swallow the difficulties. The whole "you've made your bed, now lie in it" mentality. If I'm not loved in this life, I'll at least be loved by god in the afterlife. Maybe it's the highly irrational (and selfish) romantic in me to think I could have more.

"If there's a single thing that life teaches us, it's that wishing doesn't make it so." - Lev Grossman
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20-12-2014, 10:36 AM
RE: buh bye religion
I think a lot of people struggle with there being nothing after we die because they can't comprehend it.
It's like they think they'll be conscious of the fact that they're dead and didn't go to heaven.
To me one of the freeing aspects of no afterlife is I no longer need to spend any more of my real life worrying about dying.
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20-12-2014, 10:49 AM
RE: buh bye religion
(20-12-2014 10:23 AM)Nurse Wrote:  
(20-12-2014 09:55 AM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  your thoughts?

Emotional appeal. I don't want my life to be ultimately meaningless, for it all to be for nothing. I don't like the thought that in a few generations my descendants won't even know my name. To think that all the hardships, kindness, achievements - it's ultimately pointless? In 70 years I'll be dead and gone.

Thinking that I might have the opportunity to continue to be is much more pleasant.

The reality of it all is causing some self reflection - if this is all I get, what do I want to change? What do I want out of this life? I'm figuring out the answer - and it's terrifying. The complacency of status quo is the much easier path to take. I'm trying to figure out obligations to others vs what is best for myself. Where to draw that line is awfully blurry, whereas religion would make it clear.

Edited to add: I guess what I'm trying to say is that religion makes it easier to swallow the difficulties. The whole "you've made your bed, now lie in it" mentality. If I'm not loved in this life, I'll at least be loved by god in the afterlife. Maybe it's the highly irrational (and selfish) romantic in me to think I could have more.

Couple things I think about.
Just because something is "gone" (in 70 years), doesn't mean it is meaningless. Things we do for others can have vastly important meaning for them. They have ultimate importance for us, now.
Western culture conditions people to think in terms of "individuals" today. That's not always been the case. Some cultures value family groups higher than the individuals, (which makes more sense actually, as that's what evolution does).
Last. we know there is no absolute reference point in spacetime. There may come a time when "visiting the past" (or someone else's future) may become possible. In that case, everything will look different.
https://video.search.yahoo.com/video/pla...zilla&tt=b

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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20-12-2014, 10:52 AM
RE: buh bye religion
(20-12-2014 09:55 AM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  Human beings naturally want to believe that they are a part of something bigger, that life isn’t completely futile. Our minds crave purpose and explanation.

I don't think the lack of being part of something bigger is the issue - we are part of something bigger, we are a building block for future life. Not necessarily only through DNA, but also by what we do in our lives, which affects societal evolution. We all affect the future of just about everything, it's all interdependent.

I think people can't think small enough - we are tiny tiny specs in the fabric of things. But we do have a ripple effect going, and it carries beyond our lifetime.

I am much more interested in what else is out there. Maybe we are just tiny bacteria and the universe is someone's stomach. Maybe there are thousands of universes. All we know is what we can measure and perceive.

Our personal purpose is pretty clear to me, I am more interested in the question "Is that all there is?"

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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20-12-2014, 11:32 AM
RE: buh bye religion
(20-12-2014 10:49 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(20-12-2014 10:23 AM)Nurse Wrote:  Emotional appeal. I don't want my life to be ultimately meaningless, for it all to be for nothing. I don't like the thought that in a few generations my descendants won't even know my name. To think that all the hardships, kindness, achievements - it's ultimately pointless? In 70 years I'll be dead and gone.

Thinking that I might have the opportunity to continue to be is much more pleasant.

The reality of it all is causing some self reflection - if this is all I get, what do I want to change? What do I want out of this life? I'm figuring out the answer - and it's terrifying. The complacency of status quo is the much easier path to take. I'm trying to figure out obligations to others vs what is best for myself. Where to draw that line is awfully blurry, whereas religion would make it clear.

Edited to add: I guess what I'm trying to say is that religion makes it easier to swallow the difficulties. The whole "you've made your bed, now lie in it" mentality. If I'm not loved in this life, I'll at least be loved by god in the afterlife. Maybe it's the highly irrational (and selfish) romantic in me to think I could have more.

Couple things I think about.
Just because something is "gone" (in 70 years), doesn't mean it is meaningless. Things we do for others can have vastly important meaning for them. They have ultimate importance for us, now.
Western culture conditions people to think in terms of "individuals" today. That's not always been the case. Some cultures value family groups higher than the individuals, (which makes more sense actually, as that's what evolution does).
Last. we know there is no absolute reference point in spacetime. There may come a time when "visiting the past" (or someone else's future) may become possible. In that case, everything will look different.
https://video.search.yahoo.com/video/pla...zilla&tt=b

So what I'm inferring from this video, is that I need to fall in love on a rocket ship headed away from earth. One more reason to join the mile high club - it lasts longer.

(I have a one track mind, apparently. I'm going for a run, looks like I'll be gone a while and then a short time based on a few shakes of Cesium - cause it will be in a lap. This is not the easiest concept to wrap my brain around.)

"If there's a single thing that life teaches us, it's that wishing doesn't make it so." - Lev Grossman
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