can an atheist be conservative?
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21-07-2015, 10:00 AM
RE: can an atheist be conservative?
(21-07-2015 09:56 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(21-07-2015 09:50 AM)dancefortwo Wrote:  George Wills, the conservative columnist, is an atheist.

http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/George-...id/596249/

As soon as he came out as an atheist the comment sections in various news feeds turned sour. He was suddenly evil.

Uhm, I quickly looked through a few pages of the comment section, and I saw no such thing, as anyone particularly labeling George Will anything of the sort. The comment sections primarily devolved into a theists vs atheists debate, leaving poor George ignored.

"various news feeds"

"of THE comment section" ...? In no way does that post indicate THIS is the case in this article. It is saying it happened. And the point of that article being linked isn't as some reasoning source for that claim about the comment sections, it's about showing a conservative atheist.

Spend more time reading the statements and actual verbiages used to what is actually being proclaimed and argued by people please. This is becoming tiresome.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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21-07-2015, 10:05 AM
RE: can an atheist be conservative?
I call myself "very liberal", yet I'm a supporter of unfettered gun rights, and think government regulation of smaller businesses (very different from large corporations, which can wield undue influence) and private lives is totally unwarranted, except where regulations are necessary to prevent harm to the public, such as pollution control regs.

Essentially, as soon as you label someone to categorize them, you're wrong to some degree about them.

That said, I think the GOP and the Conservative movement in general in America fits poorly with freethinker values. The closest I can see is Libertarianism, and I think that Libertarians are hopelessly naive about the damage unfettered corporate power has on the average person, requiring blinding one's self to empirical evidence of those effects throughout American history and a great deal of science.

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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21-07-2015, 10:08 AM
RE: can an atheist be conservative?
(21-07-2015 10:00 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  Spend more time reading the statements and actual verbiages used to what is actually being proclaimed and argued by people please. This is becoming tiresome.

Perhaps you should take you own advice. I was only commenting of one of the particular claims by the previous poster, of George Will suddenly "being labeled as evil", which lacked evidential support, and from quick overview of the comments sections seems to be false.
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21-07-2015, 10:17 AM
RE: can an atheist be conservative?
(21-07-2015 10:08 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(21-07-2015 10:00 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  Spend more time reading the statements and actual verbiages used to what is actually being proclaimed and argued by people please. This is becoming tiresome.

Perhaps you should take you own advice. I was only commenting of one of the particular claims by the previous poster, of George Will suddenly "being labeled as evil", which lacked evidential support, and from quick overview of the comments sections seems to be false.

Like I quoted from her post... "various news feeds" which is significant as it doesn't make a case that it was in there. It was never said that the article posted contained those types of comments... So there isn't great judgmental reasoning in assuming so like you did.

You just want to keep going around based on assumptions of simple flaws then continuing to always dig in defending your case, fine. There was no direct to the context point laid to making the case that there would be comments calling him evil in that exact case. Verbiage and wording is simple and clear in some cases.

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21-07-2015, 10:46 AM
RE: can an atheist be conservative?
(21-07-2015 10:17 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  
(21-07-2015 10:08 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  Perhaps you should take you own advice. I was only commenting of one of the particular claims by the previous poster, of George Will suddenly "being labeled as evil", which lacked evidential support, and from quick overview of the comments sections seems to be false.

Like I quoted from her post... "various news feeds" which is significant as it doesn't make a case that it was in there.

Unless the poster can prove it, I'll assume she made it up. In general conservative Christians are not particularly bothered by conservative atheists, in the way they are towards liberal ones, since they tend to share a variety of the same values. The various news feeds that I've read show an acceptance of George Will's Atheism, without particularly attacking his character.
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21-07-2015, 10:59 AM (This post was last modified: 21-07-2015 11:03 AM by ClydeLee.)
RE: can an atheist be conservative?
(21-07-2015 10:46 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(21-07-2015 10:17 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  Like I quoted from her post... "various news feeds" which is significant as it doesn't make a case that it was in there.

Unless the poster can prove it, I'll assume she made it up. In general conservative Christians are not particularly bothered by conservative atheists, in the way they are towards liberal ones, since they tend to share a variety of the same values. The various news feeds that I've read show an acceptance of George Will's Atheism, without particularly attacking his character.

You can assume it all you want. You can live in your assumption of that and you could very well be right. Though I just looked at it now and that first comment alone read as very derogatory and with one of those cheesy threatening tones some religious folks use. The, YOU BETTER phrase.

The point is you need to pay attention to the verbiage and context of arguments in their exact forms. Various doesn't mean this says, Democratic vote doesn't mean not conservative. Terms like these may seem to be the common idea but are different and based on various perspectives, show many other ideas. Keep looking for as many perspectives to grasp them. Like the link of that political position quiz above, them and other sites based on global or sociological views of what conservative/liberal are, they still rate US democrats as conservative. They are not all that way but the scale on the US figure leans more right. That includes still many people of ranges and atheists do fall in that range still.

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21-07-2015, 11:20 AM
RE: can an atheist be conservative?
(21-07-2015 10:59 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  Various doesn't mean this says

Let see if you can see the problem here. I didn’t conflate “various” with “this”, you did.

I used the attached article and comment section as a reference point, and also another article on a conservative news site, “The Blaze” as well, to gauge the “various” christian responses to George Will coming out an atheist. Nor does it particularly align with the various responses I’ve encountered regarding conservative atheists, which in my view are generally accepted. In fact George Will quotes Buckley to that affect: “I think William F. Buckley put it well when he said that a conservative need not be religious, but he cannot despise religion.”

The response she claimed of folks labeling George Will as evil, seemed questionable, lacking any evidential support. If you want to look through more news feeds you go on right ahead. Or if the poster cares to link to some of them, I’d be interested as well.

There's only a handful of folks on here, that I have a difficult time communicating with, off the top of my head, it seems to be you, and TheBeardedGuy. With most people here, I'm able to get my point across, and have a meaningful back and forth, even if we don't agree.
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21-07-2015, 11:25 AM
RE: can an atheist be conservative?
(20-07-2015 04:16 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  I've known several Ayn Rand-type (though they prefer to call themselves Neitzschean in philosophy) atheists whose social and especially economic positions were, shockingly, to me, what I'd call Conservative, in the American sense.

Which is odd, because Rand detested Nietzsche, and slagged his philosophy harshly in a couple of her books.
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21-07-2015, 11:36 AM
RE: can an atheist be conservative?
(21-07-2015 09:56 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(21-07-2015 09:50 AM)dancefortwo Wrote:  George Wills, the conservative columnist, is an atheist.

http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/George-...id/596249/

As soon as he came out as an atheist the comment sections in various news feeds turned sour. He was suddenly evil.

Uhm, I quickly looked through a few pages of the comment section, and I saw no such thing, as anyone particularly labeling George Will anything of the sort. The comment sections primarily devolved into a theists vs atheists debate, leaving poor George ignored.

I also went through another site, The Blaze, to gauge the comments regarding George Will's Atheism, I found nothing of the sort there either. The comments were primarily like this:

"As a Christian, I have no cause to discount a fellow man who happens to be atheist. I cannot replace my conscience for his. He alone must determine his destiny in pursuant of the dictates of his own conscience.

Atheists are fine with me."

The most offensive comment was this one: "I admire the man for openly stating his beliefs, but I pity the man for his beliefs."

http://www.theblaze.com/blog/2014/02/13/...n-atheist/

Free Republic is full of anti George Wills comments. If he were anything but an atheist, they'd probably like the guy.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/3152079/posts

These days he spends much of his time talking about baseball though.

Shakespeare's Comedy of Errors.... on Donald J. Trump:

He is deformed, crooked, old, and sere,
Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
Vicious, ungentle, foolish, blunt, unkind,
Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
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21-07-2015, 11:37 AM
RE: can an atheist be conservative?
(20-07-2015 04:16 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  I've known several Ayn Rand-type (though they prefer to call themselves Neitzschean in philosophy) atheists whose social and especially economic positions were, shockingly, to me, what I'd call Conservative, in the American sense.

I'd curious as to what conservative social positions they held?

I'm accustomed to the sort that would be classified as fiscally conservative, but draw a blank imagining the sort that would be a social conservative as well?
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