can someone elaborate to a learning atheist about the old beliefs of christians
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15-09-2014, 02:27 PM
can someone elaborate to a learning atheist about the old beliefs of christians
did the bible and christians of old believe the stars, sun, moon revolved around the center of the universe, earth, Geocentrism? and Galileo thought otherwise and was punished under Spanish Inquisition which was a legal system to punish influential ppl who thought otherwise. please detail.

thanks
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15-09-2014, 03:04 PM
RE: can someone elaborate to a learning atheist about the old beliefs of christians
In a nutshell yes...

I don't know if it was the Spanish inquisition - Galileo was based in Italy and the Inquisition I don't think stretched that far. However he was threatened with instruments of torture - he was taken to see them - and then he (wisely) recanted. After that he was placed under house arrest...


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15-09-2014, 03:28 PM
RE: can someone elaborate to a learning atheist about the old beliefs of christians
Full write up about this interesting question here.

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16-09-2014, 07:54 AM
RE: can someone elaborate to a learning atheist about the old beliefs of christians
(15-09-2014 02:27 PM)Ruby Wrote:  did the bible and christians of old believe the stars, sun, moon revolved around the center of the universe, earth, Geocentrism? and Galileo thought otherwise and was punished under Spanish Inquisition which was a legal system to punish influential ppl who thought otherwise. please detail.

thanks

It's worse than that -- there are still some fundies now who believe this. Google Robert Sungenis and read and weep at the sheer stupidity.
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16-09-2014, 08:42 AM
RE: can someone elaborate to a learning atheist about the old beliefs of christians
(15-09-2014 02:27 PM)Ruby Wrote:  did the bible and christians of old believe the stars, sun, moon revolved around the center of the universe, earth, Geocentrism? and Galileo thought otherwise and was punished under Spanish Inquisition which was a legal system to punish influential ppl who thought otherwise. please detail.

thanks

Geocentricism was a fairly widespread belief, even held as dogma in the Roman Catholic Church (then arguably the most powerful institution in existence, mind) until it was revised due in no small amount to the work of Galileo and Copernicus before him, though if I recall, immediate thanks go to Kepler.

Galileo was indeed punished for his controversial publications, wherein he first challenged the beliefs that the moon was smooth and after that that the Earth was the centre of the universe, but as I understand it, his controversial views (read; reality) weren't the only thing that got him brought to the distinctly not Spanish Inquisition.
If I recall, the pope encouraged Galileo to publish his findings, under the proviso that his publication included both sides of the argument; he did so, eventually getting past the Inquisitor's censors and publishing the Dialogue Concerning the Two Chief World Systems.

This would have worked out perfectly for Galileo if he had not made a major faux pas by implying that the Pope was a simpleton in the dialogue; in the Dialogue, much of the 'for Aristotelian physics' arguments was supplied by the character Simplicio; it is believed the character was named after a 6th century follower of Aristotle, but in Italian the name translated to 'simple-minded' or 'simpleton', which looked very bad since the the character made much the same arguments as the Pope himself.

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18-09-2014, 02:00 PM
RE: can someone elaborate to a learning atheist about the old beliefs of christians
Some Christians still believe in geocentrism. http://youtu.be/47OuW3VGq9M
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18-09-2014, 02:15 PM
RE: can someone elaborate to a learning atheist about the old beliefs of christians
(15-09-2014 02:27 PM)Ruby Wrote:  did the bible and christians of old believe the stars, sun, moon revolved around the center of the universe, earth, Geocentrism? and Galileo thought otherwise and was punished under Spanish Inquisition which was a legal system to punish influential ppl who thought otherwise. please detail.

thanks

In case you want the full Monty http://www.scribd.com/doc/45609725/Spani...14-Sources

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
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18-09-2014, 02:19 PM
RE: can someone elaborate to a learning atheist about the old beliefs of christians
(16-09-2014 07:54 AM)Grasshopper Wrote:  
(15-09-2014 02:27 PM)Ruby Wrote:  did the bible and christians of old believe the stars, sun, moon revolved around the center of the universe, earth, Geocentrism? and Galileo thought otherwise and was punished under Spanish Inquisition which was a legal system to punish influential ppl who thought otherwise. please detail.

thanks

It's worse than that -- there are still some fundies now who believe this. Google Robert Sungenis and read and weep at the sheer stupidity.

Why go THAT far ?
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Weeping

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22-09-2014, 07:08 AM
RE: can someone elaborate to a learning atheist about the old beliefs of christians
(16-09-2014 07:54 AM)Grasshopper Wrote:  It's worse than that -- there are still some fundies now who believe this. Google Robert Sungenis and read and weep at the sheer stupidity.

I used to post at wrothychristianforums before I joined here. I ran into two very fervent geocentrists, there. There was a thread started by one of them called something like "six things science continually gets wrong". I figured it'd be fun and gave it a read.

One of the earlier entries was gravity. My first thought was "WTF? I thought everyone but the roadrunner understood gravity.". The author then went into some quantum woo that was way beyond what I understood, so I stopped caring and moved on.

A later entry was heliocentrism. He gave Tycho Brahe's alternate cosmology, which has the earth at the center, with the sun rotating around it, and the planets rotating around the sun. This technically does solve the whole phases-of-Venus problem of traditional geocentrism, but still, I thought "That's stupid. That wouldn't work because of gravit... Ohhh! That's why they don't believe in gravity!". They had to attack gravity to be able to prop up geocentrism.

And that thread, is a great illustration of why it's stupid to assume the Bible is accurate first and then try to shoehorn it into the rest of reality. It reminds me of an entire page of sciences listed on RationalWiki that you have to ignore to be able to believe in a young earth.


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22-09-2014, 07:34 AM (This post was last modified: 22-09-2014 08:02 AM by Hafnof.)
RE: can someone elaborate to a learning atheist about the old beliefs of christians
Youtube user CoolHardLogic has an excellent ongoing series on the claims of modern geocentrists, and exactly why they are "bollocks".

Part 1:




Playlist here:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL...QdjcBQBXjT

Edit: Man - the actual geocentrists commenting on these videos are amazing.

Give me your argument in the form of a published paper, and then we can start to talk.
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