can someone elaborate to a learning atheist about the old beliefs of christians
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
01-11-2014, 05:42 PM
RE: can someone elaborate to a learning atheist about the old beliefs of christians
(22-09-2014 07:08 AM)RobbyPants Wrote:  
(16-09-2014 07:54 AM)Grasshopper Wrote:  It's worse than that -- there are still some fundies now who believe this. Google Robert Sungenis and read and weep at the sheer stupidity.

I used to post at wrothychristianforums before I joined here. I ran into two very fervent geocentrists, there. There was a thread started by one of them called something like "six things science continually gets wrong". I figured it'd be fun and gave it a read.

One of the earlier entries was gravity. My first thought was "WTF? I thought everyone but the roadrunner understood gravity.". The author then went into some quantum woo that was way beyond what I understood, so I stopped caring and moved on.

A later entry was heliocentrism. He gave Tycho Brahe's alternate cosmology, which has the earth at the center, with the sun rotating around it, and the planets rotating around the sun. This technically does solve the whole phases-of-Venus problem of traditional geocentrism, but still, I thought "That's stupid. That wouldn't work because of gravit... Ohhh! That's why they don't believe in gravity!". They had to attack gravity to be able to prop up geocentrism.

And that thread, is a great illustration of why it's stupid to assume the Bible is accurate first and then try to shoehorn it into the rest of reality. It reminds me of an entire page of sciences listed on RationalWiki that you have to ignore to be able to believe in a young earth.


Fundies: the reason we can't have nice things.

I'm an odd kind of fundy. Im not at all what one would consider a fundy except for a few points, and I don't get along with many pop church fundies as I call them. But I am a believer. I have studied with messianic jews and orthodox jews for decades, and with some very well known names too in church circles. Iv spent the last 20 years or so confronting them about a lot of issues I wont even go into.

Iv also studied the history of the church, jewish history, and the history of the manuscripts, which is EXTREMELY interesting in the fact there have been deliberate attempts to corrupt the original material that goes back 1600 years or more.

I say all that just to say, the bible doesn't discredit itself. People who read into it their own interpretations discredit it, and THAT is so widespread I really do understand all the harsh criticism.

Sometime I would love to show my take on Genesis 1... which is a literal take on the Hebrew wording used. When I began kinda meditating on the Hebrew words in Genesis 1, I developed a theory that fell right into place. I later learned that my theory was actually a doctrine that I could trace back over 2000 years, and the implication was that it goes back much further. So my understanding is a very old one, which differs significantly with what is popularly taught in church today.

We can talk about it some time if you like.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
01-11-2014, 05:50 PM
RE: can someone elaborate to a learning atheist about the old beliefs of christians
(01-11-2014 05:42 PM)Wolfbitn Wrote:  ...
We can talk about it some time if you like.

Indeed, why not?

I do so wish you'd started in this vein.

I fear it might be too late.

Sadcryface

Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like DLJ's post
01-11-2014, 05:58 PM
RE: can someone elaborate to a learning atheist about the old beliefs of christians
(15-09-2014 02:27 PM)Ruby Wrote:  did the bible and christians of old believe the stars, sun, moon revolved around the center of the universe, earth, Geocentrism? and Galileo thought otherwise and was punished under Spanish Inquisition which was a legal system to punish influential ppl who thought otherwise. please detail.

thanks

The tortures and stuff of the Inquisition and deaths from the Crusades went on for yonks. All very depressing, with the Kings and priests ...doing very well thank you.
Historical reports will vary,but it's all very depressing stuff.Evil_monster
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
01-11-2014, 06:20 PM
RE: can someone elaborate to a learning atheist about the old beliefs of christians
(01-11-2014 05:42 PM)Wolfbitn Wrote:  
(22-09-2014 07:08 AM)RobbyPants Wrote:  I used to post at wrothychristianforums before I joined here. I ran into two very fervent geocentrists, there. There was a thread started by one of them called something like "six things science continually gets wrong". I figured it'd be fun and gave it a read.

One of the earlier entries was gravity. My first thought was "WTF? I thought everyone but the roadrunner understood gravity.". The author then went into some quantum woo that was way beyond what I understood, so I stopped caring and moved on.

A later entry was heliocentrism. He gave Tycho Brahe's alternate cosmology, which has the earth at the center, with the sun rotating around it, and the planets rotating around the sun. This technically does solve the whole phases-of-Venus problem of traditional geocentrism, but still, I thought "That's stupid. That wouldn't work because of gravit... Ohhh! That's why they don't believe in gravity!". They had to attack gravity to be able to prop up geocentrism.

And that thread, is a great illustration of why it's stupid to assume the Bible is accurate first and then try to shoehorn it into the rest of reality. It reminds me of an entire page of sciences listed on RationalWiki that you have to ignore to be able to believe in a young earth.


Fundies: the reason we can't have nice things.

I'm an odd kind of fundy. Im not at all what one would consider a fundy except for a few points, and I don't get along with many pop church fundies as I call them. But I am a believer. I have studied with messianic jews and orthodox jews for decades, and with some very well known names too in church circles. Iv spent the last 20 years or so confronting them about a lot of issues I wont even go into.

Iv also studied the history of the church, jewish history, and the history of the manuscripts, which is EXTREMELY interesting in the fact there have been deliberate attempts to corrupt the original material that goes back 1600 years or more.

I say all that just to say, the bible doesn't discredit itself. People who read into it their own interpretations discredit it, and THAT is so widespread I really do understand all the harsh criticism.

Sometime I would love to show my take on Genesis 1... which is a literal take on the Hebrew wording used. When I began kinda meditating on the Hebrew words in Genesis 1, I developed a theory that fell right into place. I later learned that my theory was actually a doctrine that I could trace back over 2000 years, and the implication was that it goes back much further. So my understanding is a very old one, which differs significantly with what is popularly taught in church today.

We can talk about it some time if you like.

Really ? You can write and translate Archaic (Biblical) Hebrew ?

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Bucky Ball's post
02-11-2014, 12:03 AM
RE: can someone elaborate to a learning atheist about the old beliefs of christians
(01-11-2014 06:20 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(01-11-2014 05:42 PM)Wolfbitn Wrote:  I'm an odd kind of fundy. Im not at all what one would consider a fundy except for a few points, and I don't get along with many pop church fundies as I call them. But I am a believer. I have studied with messianic jews and orthodox jews for decades, and with some very well known names too in church circles. Iv spent the last 20 years or so confronting them about a lot of issues I wont even go into.

Iv also studied the history of the church, jewish history, and the history of the manuscripts, which is EXTREMELY interesting in the fact there have been deliberate attempts to corrupt the original material that goes back 1600 years or more.

I say all that just to say, the bible doesn't discredit itself. People who read into it their own interpretations discredit it, and THAT is so widespread I really do understand all the harsh criticism.

Sometime I would love to show my take on Genesis 1... which is a literal take on the Hebrew wording used. When I began kinda meditating on the Hebrew words in Genesis 1, I developed a theory that fell right into place. I later learned that my theory was actually a doctrine that I could trace back over 2000 years, and the implication was that it goes back much further. So my understanding is a very old one, which differs significantly with what is popularly taught in church today.

We can talk about it some time if you like.

Really ? You can write and translate Archaic (Biblical) Hebrew ?

The Torah is not just written in Hebrew Wink And I can prove everything I say.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
02-11-2014, 04:52 AM
RE: can someone elaborate to a learning atheist about the old beliefs of christians
(02-11-2014 12:03 AM)Wolfbitn Wrote:  
(01-11-2014 06:20 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Really ? You can write and translate Archaic (Biblical) Hebrew ?

The Torah is not just written in Hebrew Wink And I can prove everything I say.

With Scientific Studies ™ ? Yeah, dude, you're not a scientist. You're a bozo. Another wishful thinker. And the most annoying thing - I think you *must* be aware that you don't understand the stuff you reference, which makes you not only a fool but a dishonest one. But hey, that's your modus operandi anyway, IMO you're here to troll pure and simple. So go right ahead. Be the tit you were born to be.

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes morondog's post
02-11-2014, 01:17 PM
RE: can someone elaborate to a learning atheist about the old beliefs of christians
(02-11-2014 12:03 AM)Wolfbitn Wrote:  
(01-11-2014 06:20 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Really ? You can write and translate Archaic (Biblical) Hebrew ?

The Torah is not just written in Hebrew Wink And I can prove everything I say.

But you said "which is a literal take on the Hebrew wording used." If you are not referencing the Hebrew, how can you assert this?

Or are you, as Bucky points out, a lying simpleton?

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
[Image: flagstiny%206.gif]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Chas's post
03-11-2014, 05:32 AM
RE: can someone elaborate to a learning atheist about the old beliefs of christians
(02-11-2014 01:17 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(02-11-2014 12:03 AM)Wolfbitn Wrote:  The Torah is not just written in Hebrew Wink And I can prove everything I say.

But you said "which is a literal take on the Hebrew wording used." If you are not referencing the Hebrew, how can you assert this?

Or are you, as Bucky points out, a lying simpleton?

Take me up on the debate and we will find out who the simpleton is wont we? Smile
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
03-11-2014, 05:34 AM (This post was last modified: 03-11-2014 05:40 AM by Wolfbitn.)
RE: can someone elaborate to a learning atheist about the old beliefs of christians
(02-11-2014 04:52 AM)morondog Wrote:  
(02-11-2014 12:03 AM)Wolfbitn Wrote:  The Torah is not just written in Hebrew Wink And I can prove everything I say.

With Scientific Studies ™ ? Yeah, dude, you're not a scientist. You're a bozo. Another wishful thinker. And the most annoying thing - I think you *must* be aware that you don't understand the stuff you reference, which makes you not only a fool but a dishonest one. But hey, that's your modus operandi anyway, IMO you're here to troll pure and simple. So go right ahead. Be the tit you were born to be.


blah blah blah... just another bag of air trying to hide with ad hom the fact he is intellectually unarmed and isn't up to the debate. You bore me

I'll take the theory "God Created"
You take big bang and string
1 on 1


Come back when you've grown some balls
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
03-11-2014, 06:28 AM
RE: can someone elaborate to a learning atheist about the old beliefs of christians
(02-11-2014 12:03 AM)Wolfbitn Wrote:  
(01-11-2014 06:20 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Really ? You can write and translate Archaic (Biblical) Hebrew ?

The Torah is not just written in Hebrew Wink And I can prove everything I say.

But YOU implied that YOU read it in Hebrew. So get started. What exactly is it you think YOU know that all the other scholars missed ?

We shall see who can "prove" what.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: