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01-11-2014, 09:12 AM
RE: car advice
(01-11-2014 09:01 AM)evenheathen Wrote:  
(01-11-2014 08:40 AM)Chas Wrote:  Oil changes and tire rotation are being over-sold here. Both of those are old wisdom, once true but no longer.

Modern oils, especially synthetic, last longer in modern engines. If you are not using synthetic motor oil, you should.
With synthetic oil, changes need only be done every 15,000 - 20,000 miles.

Tire rotation is yet another old-school idea. Much more important are balancing and alignment. In fact, rotating tires will even out tire wear and actually mask alignment problems.
Many radial tires are now directional by design, so you would never rotate them except back-to-front/front-to-back. But even non-directional radial tires become directional after use,
so should never be swapped to the other side.

Synthetic oil is good. I don't know about 15-20,000 miles, but at least twice as long as standard oil. But it is also twice as expensive, so the benefits tend to even out in the end. Of course the trend is starting to gear towards newer vehicles requiring synthetic anyway.

The biggest plus for me is not having to sit at the service place as many times. I'm not saving money but I am also not stuck in a waiting room. Usually I can get it to coincide with my annual inspection so that's a good thing too.

See here they are the bruises some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF
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01-11-2014, 11:22 AM
RE: car advice
(01-11-2014 08:40 AM)Chas Wrote:  Oil changes and tire rotation are being over-sold here. Both of those are old wisdom, once true but no longer.

Modern oils, especially synthetic, last longer in modern engines. If you are not using synthetic motor oil, you should.
With synthetic oil, changes need only be done every 15,000 - 20,000 miles.

Tire rotation is yet another old-school idea. Much more important are balancing and alignment. In fact, rotating tires will even out tire wear and actually mask alignment problems.
Many radial tires are now directional by design, so you would never rotate them except back-to-front/front-to-back. But even non-directional radial tires become directional after use,
so should never be swapped to the other side.

I've never heard of going that long with synthetic oil. 7,000 is the most I've heard.

Tire rotations should always be front to back only. I've never heard of switching sides. And, balancing ids usual included.

Shackle their minds when they're bent on the cross
When ignorance reigns, life is lost
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01-11-2014, 11:30 AM (This post was last modified: 01-11-2014 11:38 AM by GirlyMan.)
RE: car advice
(01-11-2014 11:22 AM)BnW Wrote:  Tire rotations should always be front to back only. I've never heard of switching sides. And, balancing ids usual included.

Every tire rotation I've watched is front to back and left to right. (back left to front right, etc.) I think it's to maintain an even wear across the tire. And 15000 miles sounds too long between changes even for synthetic oil. I've always been told 3000 miles with standard oil and 7500 with synthetic. But I wouldn't be surprised if synthetic oil can last 15000 before breaking down and the manufacturers are erring on the side of caution. ... and profit.

#sigh
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01-11-2014, 11:37 AM
RE: car advice
(01-11-2014 11:30 AM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(01-11-2014 11:22 AM)BnW Wrote:  Tire rotations should always be front to back only. I've never heard of switching sides. And, balancing ids usual included.

Every tire rotation I've watched is front to back and left to right. (back left to front right, etc.) I think it's to maintain an even wear across the tire.

Makes more sense to me to do it like we do. Actually measure the tread and put them to where they will wear evenly. But we also do an overall inspection to spot any obvious causes of abnormal wear due to a loose tie rod or ball\U-joint or what have you.

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
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01-11-2014, 11:51 AM
RE: car advice
(01-11-2014 11:37 AM)evenheathen Wrote:  
(01-11-2014 11:30 AM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Every tire rotation I've watched is front to back and left to right. (back left to front right, etc.) I think it's to maintain an even wear across the tire.

Makes more sense to me to do it like we do. Actually measure the tread and put them to where they will wear evenly. But we also do an overall inspection to spot any obvious causes of abnormal wear due to a loose tie rod or ball\U-joint or what have you.

How do you do that? I mean not how do you measure the tread but how do you know where to put them? Do you label them and line them up to see which one should go where?

#sigh
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01-11-2014, 12:12 PM
RE: car advice
(31-10-2014 06:25 PM)pablo Wrote:  In the US?
Jiffy Lube type places will do an oil and filter change and check all other fluids for you too. At 15,000mi. you won't need a transmission service or much anything else really.
Ask them to check tire pressure for you too.

I would not take any car that I care about to Jiffy Lube.

Official ordained minister of the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster. Please pm me with prayer requests to his noodly goodness. Remember, he boiled for your sins and loves you. Carbo Diem! RAmen.
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01-11-2014, 12:13 PM
RE: car advice
(31-10-2014 10:55 PM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  As a general rule however, dealerships are owned by assholes and they hire assholes, because those assholes make the boss money.

There are exceptions. I have an excellent dealer who made his fortune precisely by not being an asshole in a business full of assholes. They have very little turnover in staff. I've bought 3 cars from the same salesman in the last 10 years 'cause I like him. There's no haggling over the price. They show you the invoice, show you any incentives they get from the manufacturer and show your their profit. It has always been $3-4K less than any of their competitors. The competitors tell me "No no don't leave we can match that price." "Why would I go the trouble of haggling you down when I can just buy it from him hassle-free."

While I like the salesman I despise the finance person. They always try to sell me extended warranties for thousands of dollars and I'm like "Dude. I'm buying a Hyundai 'cause they got like the best warranty on the planet and make a high quality car. Sounds like I trust Hyundai more than you do."

Their service department is also exceptional. Their top-paid mechanics make >$100K and they don't charge by "The Book Hours" but what they actually work which is always about 1/2 of "Book Hours". They will try to sell me "suggested service" but I just show them the owner's manual scheduled maintenance and tell them to just do that. "Yes, sir."








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01-11-2014, 12:18 PM (This post was last modified: 01-11-2014 12:38 PM by Logisch.)
RE: car advice
(01-11-2014 05:58 AM)Cathym112 Wrote:  As a general rule, you should get your tires rotated and balanced every time you change your oil. Filters changed every other oil change. They aren't expensive and it makes the car run better.

Here is the number one thing to remember. Do NOT...and I mean NEVER get lifetime warranty brake pads. You want to cheapest, SOFTEST pads. Your brakes apply pressure to the rotor (the large round disk in the center of the wheel) squeezing them to slow the vehicle down. The friction created needs to be transferred somewhere, so you want the pads to take the wear, not the rotors. The rotors can warp and that's when you feel the steering wheel shudder when you apply the brakes to slow down.
Cheap pads should cost no more than $20 per set. Rotors cost $100 a piece. Brake pads are meant to be worn down. Lifetime brake pads only wears down the rotors. Sometimes you can save the rotors by having them turned (put on a lathe that grinds the rotors evenly) . That's still expensive so make sure you insist on the cheapest and softest pads.

I would much rather take the extra wear on my rotors by using GOOD pads since your life may depend on your stopping point at some point in time. I've had cheap shitty organic pads and when push came to shove on stopping they did not stop nearly as well. Yes, for purposes of being a cheap bastard you can get cheap shitty pads. But for stopping, going with a sportier, metallic compound, or ceramic pads, you will stop much better. When someone says "get the cheapest pads possible" I translate that to, "I want to have the least stopping power possible because I feel like being cheap as shit. I could care less about my safety."

Considering how long pads last and how long rotors last, it is not going to be of major concern for quite some time. Not to mention if you take into consideration what people CHARGE to replace pads, cheap organic pads do not last as long, and you'll be replacing them more often than if you just went with good pads in the first place.

The pads people buy for trackdays last well but the rotor takes a heavy hit, but they're intended to stop you incredibly well, compared to fading quick. I'm not saying someone needs to go buy a set of "Yellowstuff" pads for daily driving, but there are a few things I will not skimp on when it comes to cars:

- Pads
- Hydraulics (I don't skimp on maintenance for my brake system)
- Tires (traction is as good as your tread, this means stopping power as well, if you can't grip the asphalt, doesn't matter how good your pads are, lockup and sliding is no bueno)
- Belts/harnesses (If they are damaged on a used vehicle I replace them, and I don't get anything cheap for trackdays)

So please, don't encourage people to get shitty pads. Sometimes a couple of feet can make all the difference in an accident.

Official ordained minister of the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster. Please pm me with prayer requests to his noodly goodness. Remember, he boiled for your sins and loves you. Carbo Diem! RAmen.
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01-11-2014, 12:27 PM
RE: car advice
(31-10-2014 05:23 PM)Dom Wrote:  Ok, I know nothing about cars. Zero, zilch, nothing. Hubby always made sure my cars were in good working order and I never had to worry about it.

So now I am a target for unscrupulous mechanics and just need some simple advice before I take my car in for maintenance.

It's relatively new, I don't drive it all that much, it just hit 15,000 miles. It tells me it wants an oil change.

So what I need is a list of items I should have done along with the oil change. Like, an oil filter.

Should I have other filters replaced? Which? Tires rotated? And I have no idea what else.

There is nothing wrong with it that I can tell, it runs very nicely. I want to do as many inexpensive maintenance things as I can, I hate when things are done at the last moment.

So, anyone here who can give me a list, and is there anything I should look out for?

- Change the oil
- Change the oil filter (some people do it every other change, I do it every change)
- Rotate tires
- Top off fluids, check to see if any other fluids are low. Things like coolant should not be low, and if they are could mean something is leaking (and worth inspecting).
- Inspect accessory belts to see if they look old or are cracked and coming up on time to replace (the last thing you want is a belt snapping down the road, generally they are cheap to replace)
- Have them do a quick check on stuff like wheel bearings (usually you can just grab the wheel and see if you can rock things back and forth and any play will be felt and heard)

As others mentioned, check your maintenance manual to see what your recommended maintenance is. Stick with recommended intervals. It's worth mentioning that there are good reasons for recommended intervals. Some people mention here that some oils last 15-20,000 miles, but there's also different components in the engine that get hotter than others on some engines.

For instance, my 911 had a dry sump with a 13qt capacity. The engine sometimes operated at temps of up to 270F on a hot day, that's fucking hot as hell. I changed my oil every 5k on that car, regardless of "recommended" intervals of what the oil said on the bottle. Most engines end up running closer to the upper temps of coolant because you don't want to boil your coolant, but not the case with aircooled engines. There are also some engines where the oil is cooling other things like a turbocharger which gets incredibly hot, and oil should be changed at recommended intervals since you're heat cycling things often. Not to mention a lot of people don't bother letting the turbo cool down before turning off the car and it just bakes the oil that sits in it.

Anyway, straying off topic here. Stick with recommended intervals in your service manual, replace things on time, don't skimp on maintenance and a well maintained car will run for years on end if you take care of it. Cars become a pile of crap when you skimp on maintenance, buy crappy parts, replace things with the cheapest parts available that are made in china and then drive them to hell and back.

Official ordained minister of the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster. Please pm me with prayer requests to his noodly goodness. Remember, he boiled for your sins and loves you. Carbo Diem! RAmen.
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01-11-2014, 12:28 PM
RE: car advice
(01-11-2014 11:51 AM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(01-11-2014 11:37 AM)evenheathen Wrote:  Makes more sense to me to do it like we do. Actually measure the tread and put them to where they will wear evenly. But we also do an overall inspection to spot any obvious causes of abnormal wear due to a loose tie rod or ball\U-joint or what have you.

How do you do that? I mean not how do you measure the tread but how do you know where to put them? Do you label them and line them up to see which one should go where?

Well, most often a car owner who doesn't care that much about maintaining their vehicle (most car owners that I see, I admit I used to be one of them) isn't going to spend money to correct problems contributing to abnormal tread wear, even if we tell them where the problem is. To give them the longest life out of their tires you note which tire is wearing most, and transfer the best tire to that location, and the rest on down the line accordingly. That way you even out the tread wear throughout the life of the tires and minimize the chance of a blowout due to one tire constantly being worn down more than the others.

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
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