christianity and rome's fall
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15-02-2015, 01:46 PM
christianity and rome's fall
I wonder if this has validity. I hardly know the facts but this article is interesting. I hardly know the facts of rome and its downfall and that's relation to xianity and how great an empire rome really was. I do think the latin language is beautiful and the dark ages were horrible. So.. if there is any truth to this, we should spread it! Christianity is a cancer on civilization, perhaps.

http://metal-gaia.com/2013/04/01/did-chr...an-empire/
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15-02-2015, 02:08 PM
RE: christianity and rome's fall
I blame the chefs.

Did you know that there is a correlation between a declining empire and the rise of culinary idolatry?

The combination of political in-fighting and a populace more concerned with trivia than the barbarians at their door is a recipe Laughat for disaster.

Look no further than the US Congress and Gordon Ramsey and you'll see what I mean.

Big Grin

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15-02-2015, 05:37 PM
RE: christianity and rome's fall
I remember an article by Richard Carrier where he said that the rise of Christianity didn't cause the fall of Rome so much as the fall of Rome caused the rise of Christianity. I'll see if I can find it.

I'm just thinking out loud.
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19-02-2015, 06:27 PM
RE: christianity and rome's fall
(15-02-2015 01:46 PM)viking Wrote:  I wonder if this has validity. I hardly know the facts but this article is interesting. I hardly know the facts of rome and its downfall and that's relation to xianity and how great an empire rome really was. I do think the latin language is beautiful and the dark ages were horrible. So.. if there is any truth to this, we should spread it! Christianity is a cancer on civilization, perhaps.

http://metal-gaia.com/2013/04/01/did-chr...an-empire/

Christianity probably had very little to do with the fall of the Roman empire sad to say. It was probably more to do with outside tribal migration, economic conditions, the decline of the roman legions, political instability, splitting the empire into East and West with an emperor for each probably didnt help either.

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20-02-2015, 09:48 PM
RE: christianity and rome's fall
Edward Gibbin who wrote "The History of the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire" back in 1776, concluded that Christianity caused the emasculation of the Roman culture, resulting in an effeminate lifestyle in which the men became unwilling to adhere to a militarized environment.

I agree.

The old Roman gods had become substituted by the Christian god, and since the religion itself taught a better life in the next world, it made the present world not worth fighting for.

Christianity effectively broke the spirit of the Romans, who by the 5th century had become but a shadow of their former selves.

How can anyone become an atheist when we are all born with no beliefs in the first place? We are atheists because we were born this way.
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21-02-2015, 08:11 AM
RE: christianity and rome's fall
(20-02-2015 09:48 PM)Free Wrote:  Edward Gibbin who wrote "The History of the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire" back in 1776, concluded that Christianity caused the emasculation of the Roman culture, resulting in an effeminate lifestyle in which the men became unwilling to adhere to a militarized environment.

I agree.

The old Roman gods had become substituted by the Christian god, and since the religion itself taught a better life in the next world, it made the present world not worth fighting for.

Christianity effectively broke the spirit of the Romans, who by the 5th century had become but a shadow of their former selves.

I wouldn't put much stock in something that old. A lot more has been uncovered since then and is better understood now.

I'm just thinking out loud.
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21-02-2015, 07:36 PM
RE: christianity and rome's fall
(21-02-2015 08:11 AM)KnowtheSilence Wrote:  
(20-02-2015 09:48 PM)Free Wrote:  Edward Gibbin who wrote "The History of the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire" back in 1776, concluded that Christianity caused the emasculation of the Roman culture, resulting in an effeminate lifestyle in which the men became unwilling to adhere to a militarized environment.

I agree.

The old Roman gods had become substituted by the Christian god, and since the religion itself taught a better life in the next world, it made the present world not worth fighting for.

Christianity effectively broke the spirit of the Romans, who by the 5th century had become but a shadow of their former selves.

I wouldn't put much stock in something that old. A lot more has been uncovered since then and is better understood now.

For the most part I agree. But for his take on how Christianity had a negative effect on Roman culture, I think he's spot on.

How can anyone become an atheist when we are all born with no beliefs in the first place? We are atheists because we were born this way.
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22-02-2015, 10:43 AM
RE: christianity and rome's fall
I would strongly disagree on three things:

1) the Dark Ages are mostly a historical myth. Medieval times were very comparable to the previous historical period in terms of philosophical, technical and social developpement. The word itself is a propaganda terms employed by philosopher opposing the feudal system and later absolutism during the 18th century.

2) Christianity had no significant effect on roman culture and their decadence was mostly due to infighting and a failling economical system based on slavery and mono-culture of grain and grapes which produce a abnormal level or poor.

3) The failling of the martial suprematie of the Roman was mostly due to their stagnating level of technologie, the too important costs of the Marius's legion.
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24-02-2015, 06:03 PM
RE: christianity and rome's fall
(22-02-2015 10:43 AM)epronovost Wrote:  I would strongly disagree on three things:

1) the Dark Ages are mostly a historical myth. Medieval times were very comparable to the previous historical period in terms of philosophical, technical and social developpement. The word itself is a propaganda terms employed by philosopher opposing the feudal system and later absolutism during the 18th century.

2) Christianity had no significant effect on roman culture and their decadence was mostly due to infighting and a failling economical system based on slavery and mono-culture of grain and grapes which produce a abnormal level or poor.

3) The failling of the martial suprematie of the Roman was mostly due to their stagnating level of technologie, the too important costs of the Marius's legion.

To build upon this, the fall of Rome is in itself almost a myth. The last western emperor was killed by his general who instead of calling himself emperor decided to call himself king. The eastern half of the empire didn't fall until 1453 with the fall of Constantinople.
Also clovis who ruled in france after the death of Romulus Augustus called himself a proconsul.

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25-02-2015, 05:04 PM
RE: christianity and rome's fall
Quote:Yet once Rome converted, Christianity released a madhouse of horrors upon Rome.


Ignores the fact that the Eastern Roman Empire lasted for another thousand years.

The problem was political in nature or, in modern terms, "pilot error."

The on-again/off-again decision to split the empire in half ignored the economic reality that the Eastern half was far richer than the Western half. Constantine undid this particular screw up but in its place he put in a whopper of his own.

He debased the Roman military by creating mobile field armies - a promising name but the realities of space/time condemned it to failure - and poorly trained/paid/motivated border guards who were able to man border crossings but not stop any actual attack.

Constantine's purpose was not military. He was his own worst example of a military commander who raised a rebellion and marched on the Italy to usurp power. His "reforms" were designed to make sure that no one like him could seize power by taking his own army and overthrowing the government. The mobile field armies were under the emperor's command and the border guards were too weak to do much more than stay alive if someone looked at them.

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