circumcision
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01-09-2014, 04:21 PM
RE: circumcision
(01-09-2014 03:52 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  
(01-09-2014 03:14 PM)Chas Wrote:  Excellent! Mutilation made easy. Dodgy

Yup. Drinking Beverage

Still not arguing for the practice, but admitting my blind adherence to a cultural phenomenon that I would choose again despite the arguments against it. I don't know what else to say.

Why would you choose it again with what you now know?


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01-09-2014, 04:27 PM
RE: circumcision
(01-09-2014 04:18 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(01-09-2014 03:52 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  Yup. Drinking Beverage

Still not arguing for the practice, but admitting my blind adherence to a cultural phenomenon that I would choose again despite the arguments against it. I don't know what else to say.

Blind adherence. Even with knowledge, you would choose it again. That's sad.

I don't disagree, I just don't see it as a big deal. I'm sorry, but it's not on par with the mutilation of teenage girls' genitals. That's a different story and I would argue very differently in that case.

Like I said, I agree with the arguments against it, but counting millions of cases of it not really being a big deal I'd have to say that....meh.

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

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01-09-2014, 04:32 PM
RE: circumcision
(01-09-2014 04:18 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(01-09-2014 03:52 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  Yup. Drinking Beverage

Still not arguing for the practice, but admitting my blind adherence to a cultural phenomenon that I would choose again despite the arguments against it. I don't know what else to say.

Blind adherence. Even with knowledge, you would choose it again. That's sad.

If my first son had been circumcised, the second and subsequent sons would have been too.

As it was my first wasn't, so neither was my second -- if there were more they wouldn't be either.

To me it's not a big deal -- it could have went either way. I still feel the same way.


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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01-09-2014, 06:07 PM (This post was last modified: 01-09-2014 06:11 PM by Escape Artist.)
RE: circumcision
(01-09-2014 04:18 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(01-09-2014 03:52 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  Yup. Drinking Beverage

Still not arguing for the practice, but admitting my blind adherence to a cultural phenomenon that I would choose again despite the arguments against it. I don't know what else to say.

Blind adherence. Even with knowledge, you would choose it again. That's sad.

My son was circumcised, due to blind adherence as well (I just thought it was the necessary thing to do, that it was for the best, etc.), but I gotta say that with the knowledge I have now, would most definitely not choose it again.

ETA: I find it odd that I absolutely refused to have my daughter's ears pierced as an infant simply because lots of other folks did so, and yet I went right along with the circumcision of my son. Undecided My reasons for not having my daughter's ears pierced when she was a baby was that I felt it should be her choice when she was older. Maybe she wouldn't even want to wear earrings, you know? And yet, I didn't give my son's circumcision very much thought, though as I said, I did believe as many people told me, that it was better for his health long-term.

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02-09-2014, 08:40 AM
RE: circumcision
(01-09-2014 04:27 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  
(01-09-2014 04:18 PM)Chas Wrote:  Blind adherence. Even with knowledge, you would choose it again. That's sad.

I don't disagree, I just don't see it as a big deal. I'm sorry, but it's not on par with the mutilation of teenage girls' genitals. That's a different story and I would argue very differently in that case.

Like I said, I agree with the arguments against it, but counting millions of cases of it not really being a big deal I'd have to say that....meh.

Not to be dickish, but "it was done to me, and I did it to my kids" is a really, really good reason to engage in a little motivated reasoning along the lines of "no big deal"...

Just sayin'.

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02-09-2014, 08:45 AM
RE: circumcision
Oh, but we could remove each kid's tonsils and appendix while they're born, too, couldn't we? While we're at it? I mean, since it's no big deal, because some people have them removed for medical reasons later, and they'll live fine without them...

Even that reasoning doesn't work either, because every surgical procedure carries risk. Some fraction of circumcisions will be botched or develop complications - that's just maths. If we then went so far as to assume there are no possible risks or side-effects (note: this is not true)... I'd still be incredibly uncomfortable forcing elective medical procedures on non-consenting minors. So there's that.

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02-09-2014, 09:06 AM
RE: circumcision
All the reading I'm doing is saying that the benefits outweigh the risks.

Not my opinion, just what I'm reading.
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02-09-2014, 09:16 AM
RE: circumcision
(01-09-2014 04:27 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  
(01-09-2014 04:18 PM)Chas Wrote:  Blind adherence. Even with knowledge, you would choose it again. That's sad.

I don't disagree, I just don't see it as a big deal. I'm sorry, but it's not on par with the mutilation of teenage girls' genitals. That's a different story and I would argue very differently in that case.

Like I said, I agree with the arguments against it, but counting millions of cases of it not really being a big deal I'd have to say that....meh.

I'm in the same boat. The kids don't remember it, it's not bothering them in the future...whatever.

Atheism is the only way to truly be free from sin.
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02-09-2014, 09:22 AM
RE: circumcision
(02-09-2014 09:16 AM)Colourcraze Wrote:  [quote='evenheathen' pid='637967' dateline='1409610450']
I'm in the same boat. The kids don't remember it, it's not bothering them in the future...whatever.

Or in my case, I do remember it. Still no big deal.
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02-09-2014, 11:13 AM
RE: circumcision
It destroys the function of the thing. It becomes a rigid unmoving stick with little sensitivity. But then who would know that if this function had been removed. It serves a purpose of making movement within the vagina possible without chaffing and without lubrication. It removes several square inches of the most sensitive part of the body. A bit like removing the covering of the tongue so people had no taste. You don't know what you've lost if you never had it.

On a Ralph Ellis note, though, I became aware through my travels in Turkey that circumcision is performed when boys are about six years old http://www.allaboutturkey.com/sunnet.htm

They dress the kid up in white as a Prince and parade him around the neighbourhood on a horse with drums and flutes and all the family trailing behind. People come out and give the kid gifts. They do this either before or after the opeation...ouch.

Anyway, this reminded me of Ralph Ellis story of Izates/Jesus who was born in what is now Turkey. Izates is circumcised to mark his conversion to the Nazarene sect. In Turkey, they venerate the Eye of Horus (Karas/Christ). Every house and business has at least one of these things. It is supposed to ward off evil. That reminds me of Jesus who is baptized and then turns up in Jerusalem on a donkey. He is hailed as royalty and people come out to see him. And, he is a a Nazarene.

There is no other explanation of these traditions in Turkey other than that they were, before being Muslims, all Christians and that these traditions reflect their old religion which was a form of Christianity. The horse, white robes of a prince and Nazar are not part of Islam.
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