conversation with mom
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11-04-2015, 10:49 PM (This post was last modified: 11-04-2015 10:54 PM by Chas.)
RE: conversation with mom
(11-04-2015 10:43 PM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(11-04-2015 08:18 AM)cactus Wrote:  I don't understand Aron's argument. Is he saying that apes are a subset of monkeys, because both modern apes and modern monkeys share a common monkey-like ancestor?

In a monophyletic hierarchy, you never outgrow your ancestry. As opposed to paraphyletic hierarchy, which would have our ancestors cease being monkeys as soon as they started being apes (but notice, they didn't cease being mammals or chordates).

Look at the chart Chas posted.

[Image: lossless-page1-500px-Primate_Tree.tiff.png]

If we (Hominids derived form Catarrhini) are not monkeys, then both the New World Monkeys and the Old World Monkeys became monkeys independently of one another, as that's the only way to exclude Hominids from also being monkeys. In essence, secluding hominids from being considered monkeys is an arbitrary distinction that ignores where hominids descended from.

AronRa argues that the Caterhini (basis for both Hominids and the Old World Monkeys) are monkeys, and thus the hominids are still monkeys in the way we are also still mammals, quadrupeds, and chordates.

It's only confusing because 'monkey' is being used 3 different ways. Is the common ancestor a 'monkey'? Not really.
Or is the real problem referring to both Platyrrhini and Catarrhini as monkeys?

If you call a tail a leg, how many legs does a dog have?
Four. Calling a tail a leg doesn't make it a leg.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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12-04-2015, 03:38 AM
RE: conversation with mom
Unless I missed something, all this stuff about which primate we may have descended from is irrelevant. And I ain't smart enough to jump in here. But ain't we descended from whatever them primates are descended from? And then what about them dinosaurs? And then them stars? Then the dang "Big Bang"? And ain't the question: "What are we descended from?" the same as: "Where did it all begin?" So, there just MIGHT be a Nobel Prize for the Adam or the Eve who can answer this one! Your MOST ancient ancestors were't apes, monkeys fish or even star dust.
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12-04-2015, 04:00 AM
RE: conversation with mom
(11-04-2015 03:00 AM)purpledaisies Wrote:  Mom: I think if they are going to teach evolution they should teach the creation too.

Me: mom evolution is a science not religion.

Mom: we didn't come from monkeys.

Me: do u know what evolution is?

Mom: it still isn't right. Uvknow what I mean?

Me: no mom evolution is a science it doesn't matter what ur beliefs are u can't change the science behind it.

Mom: well its still not right

Me: head wall head wall.

It wouldn't matter how well you explained the science, if wouldn't matter if you could get her to comprehend that our common evolutionary ancestor wasn't a monkey. She wants to believe Goddidit. You can't shake that kind of blind, terrified conviction and there isn't much point trying.
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