darwism taught in school question
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
23-08-2015, 12:45 PM
RE: darwism taught in school question
(23-08-2015 08:11 AM)purpledaisies Wrote:  Ok i get all of this. But im still bot understanding how it is taught in schools? Are we saying its darwism or is it obsorbed into evolution?
Im asking because she says they are still teaching darwism in science as a science and as true fact how darwn wrote it up.

I did explain to her tjat it was refined and not taught how it was in its original content as we get new info we refine the theroy as we do with all theroies.

Am i understanding it right?

Darwin got a (shocking) amount of stuff right about evolution, considering he published On the Origin of Species by Means of Natural Selection in 1859 (I say published because he wrote it earlier than that, but was afraid to publish at first until he was almost "scooped" by another researcher, Alfred Wallace, years later, and they wound up publishing at the same time). As others wrote, Darwin hadn't read Gregor Mendel's recent discovery of genetic inheritance, and had no access to modern discoveries like DNA sequencing or the hundreds of thousands of transitional fossils we've found in the last 150 years. The main thing he discovered, that Natural Selection shapes populations of animals with each passing generation and causes evolution to occur, still stands up as proved. So in the sense that we still teach Natural Selection, Darwin is still taught as modern science, confirmed over and over again by each new field in biology (like DNA sequencing).

Darwin did not discover evolution, though, as it had been known conclusively since his grandfather's time that species changed with time, and Geology textbooks in the 1830s had shown conclusively that species had changed in the ascending layers of rock, and classified the types of life in each era. What Darwin did was provide the natural mechanism by which that change occurred.

Your friend is clearly being influenced by Creationists, based on her terminology, and they like to try to claim that biological science is a religious doctrine that should not be taught to kids in school (a weak play on the separation of church and state doctrine), thinking that if they say "it is just a religion" it means that both ideas have equal merit. But it would be impossible to teach a meaningful class on biology without discussing how the things we see in nature came to be that way, just as it would be impossible to teach astrophysics without discussing the Theory of Gravity, or medicine without discussing Germ Theory, or chemistry without discussing Atomic Theory.

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 6 users Like RocketSurgeon76's post
23-08-2015, 01:51 PM
RE: darwism taught in school question
(23-08-2015 12:45 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  
(23-08-2015 08:11 AM)purpledaisies Wrote:  Ok i get all of this. But im still bot understanding how it is taught in schools? Are we saying its darwism or is it obsorbed into evolution?
Im asking because she says they are still teaching darwism in science as a science and as true fact how darwn wrote it up.

I did explain to her tjat it was refined and not taught how it was in its original content as we get new info we refine the theroy as we do with all theroies.

Am i understanding it right?

Darwin got a (shocking) amount of stuff right about evolution, considering he published On the Origin of Species by Means of Natural Selection in 1859 (I say published because he wrote it earlier than that, but was afraid to publish at first until he was almost "scooped" by another researcher, Alfred Wallace, years later, and they wound up publishing at the same time). As others wrote, Darwin hadn't read Gregor Mendel's recent discovery of genetic inheritance, and had no access to modern discoveries like DNA sequencing or the hundreds of thousands of transitional fossils we've found in the last 150 years. The main thing he discovered, that Natural Selection shapes populations of animals with each passing generation and causes evolution to occur, still stands up as proved. So in the sense that we still teach Natural Selection, Darwin is still taught as modern science, confirmed over and over again by each new field in biology (like DNA sequencing).

Darwin did not discover evolution, though, as it had been known conclusively since his grandfather's time that species changed with time, and Geology textbooks in the 1830s had shown conclusively that species had changed in the ascending layers of rock, and classified the types of life in each era. What Darwin did was provide the natural mechanism by which that change occurred.

Your friend is clearly being influenced by Creationists, based on her terminology, and they like to try to claim that biological science is a religious doctrine that should not be taught to kids in school (a weak play on the separation of church and state doctrine), thinking that if they say "it is just a religion" it means that both ideas have equal merit. But it would be impossible to teach a meaningful class on biology without discussing how the things we see in nature came to be that way, just as it would be impossible to teach astrophysics without discussing the Theory of Gravity, or medicine without discussing Germ Theory, or chemistry without discussing Atomic Theory.

OK thank you very much. I'm understanding so much better.

I didn't get a proper education since when I was a kid it was over 25 years ago and I live in the bible belt along with me not remembering it all. Lol
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes purpledaisies's post
23-08-2015, 02:06 PM
RE: darwism taught in school question
(23-08-2015 11:49 AM)Chas Wrote:  The Theory of Evolution (the modern synthesis) is taught as science because it is science.

I went to a Lutheran school K-9 and evolution was taught in science class and in religion class we focused more on Luther's 95 feces and the glory of God and the sacrifice of The Word than the creation described in Genesis. Lutherans don't seem to have a problem keeping science and religion separate.

#sigh
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes GirlyMan's post
23-08-2015, 02:38 PM
RE: darwism taught in school question
Disgusting, why they aren't teaching Lamarckianism is outrageous

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes ClydeLee's post
23-08-2015, 02:56 PM
RE: darwism taught in school question
(23-08-2015 02:38 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  Disgusting, why they aren't teaching Lamarckianism is outrageous

Technically, the Christians should be just as mad at Gregor Mendel as they are at Darwin, since Lamarckian acquired-characteristic inheritance is Biblical:

Genesis 30:25-43 Wrote:25 After Rachel gave birth to Joseph, Jacob said to Laban, “Send me on my way so I can go back to my own homeland. 26 Give me my wives and children, for whom I have served you, and I will be on my way. You know how much work I’ve done for you.”

27 But Laban said to him, “If I have found favor in your eyes, please stay. I have learned by divination that the Lord has blessed me because of you.” 28 He added, “Name your wages, and I will pay them.”

29 Jacob said to him, “You know how I have worked for you and how your livestock has fared under my care. 30 The little you had before I came has increased greatly, and the Lord has blessed you wherever I have been. But now, when may I do something for my own household?”

31 “What shall I give you?” he asked.

“Don’t give me anything,” Jacob replied. “But if you will do this one thing for me, I will go on tending your flocks and watching over them: 32 Let me go through all your flocks today and remove from them every speckled or spotted sheep, every dark-colored lamb and every spotted or speckled goat. They will be my wages. 33 And my honesty will testify for me in the future, whenever you check on the wages you have paid me. Any goat in my possession that is not speckled or spotted, or any lamb that is not dark-colored, will be considered stolen.”

34 “Agreed,” said Laban. “Let it be as you have said.” 35 That same day he removed all the male goats that were streaked or spotted, and all the speckled or spotted female goats (all that had white on them) and all the dark-colored lambs, and he placed them in the care of his sons. 36 Then he put a three-day journey between himself and Jacob, while Jacob continued to tend the rest of Laban’s flocks.

37 Jacob, however, took fresh-cut branches from poplar, almond and plane trees and made white stripes on them by peeling the bark and exposing the white inner wood of the branches. 38 Then he placed the peeled branches in all the watering troughs, so that they would be directly in front of the flocks when they came to drink. When the flocks were in heat and came to drink, 39 they mated in front of the branches. And they bore young that were streaked or speckled or spotted. 40 Jacob set apart the young of the flock by themselves, but made the rest face the streaked and dark-colored animals that belonged to Laban. Thus he made separate flocks for himself and did not put them with Laban’s animals. 41 Whenever the stronger females were in heat, Jacob would place the branches in the troughs in front of the animals so they would mate near the branches, 42 but if the animals were weak, he would not place them there. So the weak animals went to Laban and the strong ones to Jacob. 43 In this way the man grew exceedingly prosperous and came to own large flocks, and female and male servants, and camels and donkeys.

-Genesis 30:25-43, NIV

(Bold emphasis my own.) How clever of Jacob, to know that breeding while seeing striped sticks would cause the sheep to change to fit their environment (Lamarck). Another example of "I know more than God". Laughat

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like RocketSurgeon76's post
23-08-2015, 03:33 PM
RE: darwism taught in school question
(23-08-2015 12:45 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  
(23-08-2015 08:11 AM)purpledaisies Wrote:  Ok i get all of this. But im still bot understanding how it is taught in schools? Are we saying its darwism or is it obsorbed into evolution?
Im asking because she says they are still teaching darwism in science as a science and as true fact how darwn wrote it up.

I did explain to her tjat it was refined and not taught how it was in its original content as we get new info we refine the theroy as we do with all theroies.

Am i understanding it right?

Darwin got a (shocking) amount of stuff right about evolution, considering he published On the Origin of Species by Means of Natural Selection in 1859 (I say published because he wrote it earlier than that, but was afraid to publish at first until he was almost "scooped" by another researcher, Alfred Wallace, years later, and they wound up publishing at the same time). As others wrote, Darwin hadn't read Gregor Mendel's recent discovery of genetic inheritance, and had no access to modern discoveries like DNA sequencing or the hundreds of thousands of transitional fossils we've found in the last 150 years. The main thing he discovered, that Natural Selection shapes populations of animals with each passing generation and causes evolution to occur, still stands up as proved. So in the sense that we still teach Natural Selection, Darwin is still taught as modern science, confirmed over and over again by each new field in biology (like DNA sequencing).

Darwin did not discover evolution, though, as it had been known conclusively since his grandfather's time that species changed with time, and Geology textbooks in the 1830s had shown conclusively that species had changed in the ascending layers of rock, and classified the types of life in each era. What Darwin did was provide the natural mechanism by which that change occurred.

I think that's a tad misleading. Darwin did create the Theory of Evolution by discovering and stating the mechanism (natural selection), and buttressing it with impeccable evidence. There was no viable theory until then.

The essence of the evolutionary algorithm was identified by Darwin: replication with variation filtered by differential reproductive success.

Quote:Your friend is clearly being influenced by Creationists, based on her terminology, and they like to try to claim that biological science is a religious doctrine that should not be taught to kids in school (a weak play on the separation of church and state doctrine), thinking that if they say "it is just a religion" it means that both ideas have equal merit. But it would be impossible to teach a meaningful class on biology without discussing how the things we see in nature came to be that way, just as it would be impossible to teach astrophysics without discussing the Theory of Gravity, or medicine without discussing Germ Theory, or chemistry without discussing Atomic Theory.

It may even be the mother calling whatever is being taught "Darwinism" out of her own bias, not the school at all. Or possibly the teacher calling the required curriculum "Darwinism" due to her bias.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
[Image: flagstiny%206.gif]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
23-08-2015, 03:39 PM
RE: darwism taught in school question
(23-08-2015 03:33 PM)Chas Wrote:  I think that's a tad misleading. Darwin did create the Theory of Evolution by discovering and stating the mechanism (natural selection), and buttressing it with impeccable evidence. There was no viable theory until then.

The essence of the evolutionary algorithm was identified by Darwin: replication with variation filtered by differential reproductive success.

Ah, quite so. You're correct; I should have been more specific in noting that there is a difference between evolution, or the changing of species over time (which then was referred to as "the mutability of species"), and the Theory of Evolution, which Darwin did indeed give us the first viable model for, and which has been modified with new information (like genetics) since his day. Darwin is the father of the Theory, but evolution as a concept was well known before that.

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like RocketSurgeon76's post
24-08-2015, 03:17 AM (This post was last modified: 24-08-2015 07:02 AM by kingschosen.)
RE: darwism taught in school question
I went to a Baptist high school in Baton Rouge and a Baptist college near Jackson, MS (heart of the Bible Belt). Evolution was taught as science at both these schools. YEC teachers and professors made it clear they didn't agree with evolution, but they taught it.

I find it hard to believe that evolution or Darwinism or whatever whoever is calling it, is being taught as non-science. Even private schools must teach it as science for accreditation; likewise, if they teach creationism it must be taught in science as a religious belief; if it's even mentioned in the science class, that is. Private religious schools usually teach it in their mandatory religion classes (as such with my school).

My extremely conservative Baptist college did not teach creationism of any kind outside religion classes, lest they lose their accreditation.

Colleges like Pensacola Christian College could not get accredited until they started teaching evolution in their classes as science. They blatantly denounce it, though.

With that being said, and as sheltered as I was growing up, I still understood the basic concepts of evolution. I mean, it's like not knowing how to write a 5 paragraph essay in English or not knowing how to do long division in math.

Schools must teach these basic concepts in order to stay accredited, and it's been this way before and during your tenure in school. Until just recently, Louisiana passed a law that allows schools to teach creationism as science. They are the only state that does this.

So in short, either 1) someone is lying, 2) someone has no clue what they're talking about, or 3) both.

I also find it troubling that you do not know/remember the most basic and simplests concepts of evolution. The states where I received my education are at the bottom of the barrel education-wise; yet, I still understood it at it's most basic form. Meaning, if I understood it... with all the barriers that were in my way, there is no reason why you shouldn't know simple science.

And as a side note, please do not engage in conversation with a creationist until you educate yourself a little more on basic evolution. You will inevitably do more harm than good.

[Image: dog-shaking.gif]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like kingschosen's post
24-08-2015, 03:36 AM
RE: darwism taught in school question
(23-08-2015 12:45 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  Darwin got a (shocking) amount of stuff right about evolution

Not that shocking. I've been dipping into the Voyage of the Beagle, that boy... he was *sharp*. Where most schmucks (like me) would have been swinging in a hammock and enjoying the sunshine he was analysing the shit out of every goddamn thing in sight, taking notes, putting stuff under the microscope, hiking up volcanoes and observing the geology... going completely fucking nuts. Crazy bastard.

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like morondog's post
24-08-2015, 09:25 AM (This post was last modified: 24-08-2015 12:33 PM by RobbyPants.)
RE: darwism taught in school question
(23-08-2015 04:35 AM)purpledaisies Wrote:  Is it being taught in school as science and is it science or religion. My friend is saying it is religion.

"Darwinism" is a word creationists use to change evolution into some religious cult of personality. Any time someone uses that word, you're dealing with someone who is misinformed at best, or who is downright dishonest.

As others have pointed out, Darwin's own ideas are 150 years old, and are not what scientists currently talk about.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes RobbyPants's post
Post Reply
Forum Jump: