documented out of body experience...?
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27-08-2014, 01:45 PM (This post was last modified: 27-08-2014 01:48 PM by Baruch.)
RE: documented out of body experience...?
(27-08-2014 06:10 AM)pablo Wrote:  
(25-08-2014 06:46 PM)Baruch Wrote:  I have had out of body experiences.

There are exercises you can do which help achieve OBE's.

I once also took Galantamine & various B vitamins + Nicotine patch and had the wildest night ever - flying, OBE's, meeting angels and lucid dreaming so powerful that I could literally not tell if the experience was veridical or not. Seriously like Decartes demon on steroids.

If I had no neuroscience education or critical reasoning skills, philosophical understanding and a dose of skepticism I would probably have converted to some weird religion !

Could you list exactly what you took and the dosages?
I'm um...writing a paper, yea that's it, I'm writing a paper. Unsure

Writing a paper my ass.
Its all top secret and classified. I don't promote hallucinogenic's.

However for your paper.
Galantamine 8mg at night - but try 2 - 4mg first just in case you dont return to your body.
One can go higher than 8mg but I dont recommend unless you have Alzheimer but then you will not remember this..(doses up to 24mg have been used and licensed but seriously don't recommend - likely to make people drowsy, dizzy & sick)

This must be combined with:
Choline inositol 500mg or any high strength versions.
Vitamin B compex high strength versions.

advice on:
http://www.galantaminedreams.com/how-to-lucid-dream

One can add a nicotine patch - but only after experienced use as this can give some trippy experiences and also leave one feeling groggy in the mooring and does have side effects. Not recommended (forbidden ! ) if someone has any heart conditions.
Whilst Nicotine can bring about some profound otherworldly and amazing lucidity it can also give nightmarish and awfully 'locked' repetitive experiences.

Additions of melatonin 3mg+ or 5HT can also benefit some people. Melatonin can relax and promote sleep but not too deep to help temper down the possibility of waking up during a full blown lucid vivid experience. Too much melatonin can leave one drowsy the next day.

Luckily the half life of all these drugs is quite short so hang overs unlikely except for Nicotine if someone is not used to it (can cause severe nausea)
That's because it is a patch and hence releases constant amount over time.

HOWEVER - MOST IMPORTANT are some affirmations and intentions that one wants to lucid dream and OBE. Also one must go to sleep earlyish and "sleep in" - this is not something to do on a normal workday because the best experiences come from the early morning during the peak REM period. Some relaxed meditation is also useful with the intentions of lucid dreaming.

ALSO: One MUST have a dream journal and write down the experiences the next morning 1st thing when one wakes up - without this the whole thing is a waste of time.

ALso for OBE sleeping on back with face to the ceiling is essential.

BEWARE:
One expected and potentially nasty effect for everyone is sleep paralysis - and this can be extremely scary.

"Bursts" of intermittent galantamine use eg once a week is extremely unlikely to be harmful due to giving plenty time for the body to excrete and return to normal baseline (unlike daily long term use for alzeimers).

Do a net search for articles and blogs - I have posted nothing new and take no responsibility if one loses their soul.

Once one is an expert then the brain kind of trains itself to expect and create lucidity - maybe there is some neuroplasticity and the crutch of any drugs may not be necessary [brain training]- but galantimine is always very powerful [most of the time]

Is this useful to do ?

Well - on the one hand lucid dreaming is just some fun - but it can also lead to some serious creativity and mind blowing experiences. In fact an expert may prefer night time sleep that normal daily reality.
The caveat is that some lucid & vivid dream experiences will be nightmarish & disturbing and sleep paralysis can be extremely frightening thinking you will die.

Does it work for everyone ?

If someone has a busy regular morning schedule of waking up early then a trippy lucid dreaming life style just does not fit. One can go to bed very early to achieve this - but how this fits with someones social life & other activities may vary.

Also: Discipline with a journal is utterly crucial
...and break periods required to wash out any drugs such as a few days not to allow any tollerance to develop or down-regulation of neurochemicals. [allows recharching & equillibrium of acetylcholine & other neurochemicals which influence lucidity]

This is all for a paper.
No suggestions anyone should try anything I have written and I am sure you are all responsible people.

...and if you meet God, Say Hi for me, its been a long time since we last met. Tell Him to get in touch - we need to discuss why He is such a bastard psychopathic torturing maniac.

A wise man proportions his belief to the evidence -
David Hume


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28-08-2014, 01:13 AM
RE: documented out of body experience...?
An incorporeal "soul" levitating clear of a body would be blind and deaf; all the sensory apparatus is still down with the body. All OBE accounts can be quickly dismissed by simply asking for descriptions of the visual portion of the experience. Every one of them describes a visual experience identical to human binocular vision with human depth of field and peripheral extent, in other words, the visual experience produced by two human eyes a few inches apart on a common plane and processed by the visual processing regions of the human brain. No levitating "soul" would possess all that physical equipment. Similarly, no levitating "soul" would pack all the apparatus of human hearing. Without sensory apparatus, the disembodied "soul" wouldn't be able to see or hear (or touch or taste or smell) anything at all.

If a "soul" were capable of sensory experience without sensory apparatus, why would evolution encumber the physical body with redundant mechanisms?

There's no question so-called OBE experiences are commonplace, but they aren't what they seem, and this study proves the point by showing that whatever is happening is still happening in a physical organ, the brain.
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28-08-2014, 01:47 AM
RE: documented out of body experience...?
(28-08-2014 01:13 AM)Airportkid Wrote:  An incorporeal "soul" levitating clear of a body would be blind and deaf; all the sensory apparatus is still down with the body. All OBE accounts can be quickly dismissed by simply asking for descriptions of the visual portion of the experience. Every one of them describes a visual experience identical to human binocular vision with human depth of field and peripheral extent, in other words, the visual experience produced by two human eyes a few inches apart on a common plane and processed by the visual processing regions of the human brain. No levitating "soul" would possess all that physical equipment. Similarly, no levitating "soul" would pack all the apparatus of human hearing. Without sensory apparatus, the disembodied "soul" wouldn't be able to see or hear (or touch or taste or smell) anything at all.

If a "soul" were capable of sensory experience without sensory apparatus, why would evolution encumber the physical body with redundant mechanisms?

There's no question so-called OBE experiences are commonplace, but they aren't what they seem, and this study proves the point by showing that whatever is happening is still happening in a physical organ, the brain.

I somewhat agree. However dreams do distort out "usual" sensory perception and lucid reams even more so (as do some hallucinations) - and for that matter a well trained lucid dreamer EVEN more so making experiences VERY different to normal veridical experience (what your describing)

...so your point is powerful but not all encompassing - quite possible to have alternative experiences but still "sensory". [not really "sensory" because one is not using their senses but regions of the brain which deal with sensory perception - but a soul dualist would argue that the perception is "external" to the brain.

...of course remember dreams come from memory which is mostly veridical but creative imagination plays a big part.

A wise man proportions his belief to the evidence -
David Hume


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28-08-2014, 03:52 PM
RE: documented out of body experience...?
(27-08-2014 06:10 AM)pablo Wrote:  
(25-08-2014 06:46 PM)Baruch Wrote:  I have had out of body experiences.

Could you list exactly what you took and the dosages?
I'm um...writing a paper, yea that's it, I'm writing a paper. Unsure

4-way window pane. ... oh, and angel dust.

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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29-08-2014, 12:23 PM
RE: documented out of body experience...?
(28-08-2014 03:52 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(27-08-2014 06:10 AM)pablo Wrote:  Could you list exactly what you took and the dosages?
I'm um...writing a paper, yea that's it, I'm writing a paper. Unsure

4-way window pane. ... oh, and angel dust.

Angel dust is phencyclidine PCP

...Ketamine will also do the Job

However it is a potentially dangerous drug. Getting the doses slightly wrong, hypersensitivity or co-morbidness and you will be in the morgue.

Then you can really test out the afterlife hypothesis.

Give us feedback from the afterlife.

A wise man proportions his belief to the evidence -
David Hume


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29-08-2014, 04:49 PM
RE: documented out of body experience...?
(29-08-2014 12:23 PM)Baruch Wrote:  
(28-08-2014 03:52 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  4-way window pane. ... oh, and angel dust.

Angel dust is phencyclidine PCP

...Ketamine will also do the Job

However it is a potentially dangerous drug. Getting the doses slightly wrong, hypersensitivity or co-morbidness and you will be in the morgue.

Then you can really test out the afterlife hypothesis.

Give us feedback from the afterlife.


Ketamine is what I've read creates a near death experience. So what's the difference between a NDE and an OBE??? Or is it the same thing.

Shakespeare's Comedy of Errors.... on Donald J. Trump:

He is deformed, crooked, old, and sere,
Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
Vicious, ungentle, foolish, blunt, unkind,
Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
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29-08-2014, 06:58 PM (This post was last modified: 29-08-2014 08:23 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: documented out of body experience...?
(29-08-2014 12:23 PM)Baruch Wrote:  
(28-08-2014 03:52 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  4-way window pane. ... oh, and angel dust.

Angel dust is phencyclidine PCP

...Ketamine will also do the Job

However it is a potentially dangerous drug. Getting the doses slightly wrong, hypersensitivity or co-morbidness and you will be in the morgue.

Then you can really test out the afterlife hypothesis.

Give us feedback from the afterlife.

You're probably on the South side of LD50. Yes, you might want to consider limiting your experimentation if you have concerns. I live on the Arctic North side of LD50.

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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30-08-2014, 07:54 AM
RE: documented out of body experience...?
(29-08-2014 06:58 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(29-08-2014 12:23 PM)Baruch Wrote:  Angel dust is phencyclidine PCP

...Ketamine will also do the Job

However it is a potentially dangerous drug. Getting the doses slightly wrong, hypersensitivity or co-morbidness and you will be in the morgue.

Then you can really test out the afterlife hypothesis.

Give us feedback from the afterlife.

You're probably on the South side of LD50. Yes, you might want to consider limiting your experimentation if you have concerns. I live on the Arctic North side of LD50.

Well those on the north side of the LD50 might win the Darwin awards. Us folk on the south side of the LD50 are just the boring folk.


Also take note the LD50 does not take into account being alive but brain half turned to mush, addicted or in some psychiatric asylum - I worked on a cardiology unit with some teenagers who had cardiac arrests fro cocaine as an example - whilst some recover playing with their PC's whilst wired to ECG's others end up with brain damage.

However on another note - I fully support re-introduction and investigating all psychoactive drugs for therapeutic potential and greatly support professor Nutt's stance on the subject if your familiar with what happened in the UK regarding legislation of many class A substances.
eg Prof Nutt was fired from UK government science advisory committee on drugs safety for saying danger of ecstasy was far less than horse-riding ! (which is true - so why is horse riding or rugby legal and E's criminalized ?)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/l...iding.html

Quote prof Nutt:
Quote:"There is not much difference between horse riding and ecstasy."
Quote: "equasy", short for "Equine Addiction Syndrome", had caused 10 deaths and more than 100 road traffic accidents a year.
(About 1.6 million people ride at least once a month in UK)
http://www.beta-uk.org/pages/trade/equestrian-industry-information/market-information.php

Quote: There are 500,000 regular users and between 30 million and 60 million ecstasy pills in circulation in the UK.
The council heard last year that deaths among ecstasy users had trebled from 10 to 30 a year over the past 15 years. The cost of pills had slumped from £15.50 to £2.30

A wise man proportions his belief to the evidence -
David Hume


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30-08-2014, 08:21 AM
RE: documented out of body experience...?
(29-08-2014 04:49 PM)dancefortwo Wrote:  
(29-08-2014 12:23 PM)Baruch Wrote:  Angel dust is phencyclidine PCP

...Ketamine will also do the Job

However it is a potentially dangerous drug. Getting the doses slightly wrong, hypersensitivity or co-morbidness and you will be in the morgue.

Then you can really test out the afterlife hypothesis.

Give us feedback from the afterlife.


Ketamine is what I've read creates a near death experience. So what's the difference between a NDE and an OBE??? Or is it the same thing.

OBE & NDE are phenomenologically different experiences but there is cross over & many similarities. We dont have a full neurological understanding yet for the underpinning of these experiences but more is understood now than 15 yrs ago.

Lucid dreaming is also contains phenomena found in NDE, OBE and ordinary vivid dreaming.
The key to lucidity is having VOLITIONAL dreams - where there is a subject controlling the dream landscape [to varying degrees].
OBE's and NDE's can also be volitional or passive experiences.
Obviously when an NDE/OBE is volitional it gives a much more powerful impression that a "person" has left their body - and this is were I think OBE's and NDE's are a subset of types of lucid dreaming (which in itself is a subset of dream experiences). Of course many people will deny the OBE/NDE is a dream. However someone who has never has a powerful lucid dream may well claim lucid dreaming is either made up or a totally different think and cannot be compared to "merely dreaming"
I think the lucid dreaming phenomena is easier to explain as "merely" dreaming because before & after the lucid dreams are often "normal" dreams (or going in and out of normal dreaming)
However NDE/OBE are also often accompanied by more standard type dream experiences.

However different parts of the brain may be activated or de-activated in NDE, OBE & Lucid dreaming and a full exploration of the topic has to take into account the pharmacology of psychoactive drugs.
How does a spontaneous OBE differ to that of Ketamine ?
How does a NDE from LSD differ to a NDE post cardiac arrest ?
How does the loss of sense of self compare with various ethnogens/hallucinogenic drugs and meditative experiences ?


...because many of these substances have been made illegal and only available on the streets it is difficult to do controlled studies - this is a shame.
Its sad for pharmacological research into new therapeutic uses & medicine eg PTS & ecstasy potential or LSD for treating alcohol addiction.
Sad for those interested in philosophy of mind and neurology "for its own sake"
Sad for understanding religious experiences people claim such as NDE's and OBE's.

A wise man proportions his belief to the evidence -
David Hume


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30-08-2014, 09:08 AM (This post was last modified: 30-08-2014 09:15 AM by GirlyMan.)
RE: documented out of body experience...?
(30-08-2014 07:54 AM)Baruch Wrote:  
(29-08-2014 06:58 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  You're probably on the South side of LD50. Yes, you might want to consider limiting your experimentation if you have concerns. I live on the Arctic North side of LD50.
Well those on the north side of the LD50 might win the Darwin awards. Us folk on the south side of the LD50 are just the boring folk.

Also take note the LD50 does not take into account being alive but brain half turned to mush, addicted or in some psychiatric asylum -

Guess I must've just got lucky. ... Consider ... or maybe not.

(30-08-2014 08:21 AM)Baruch Wrote:  
(29-08-2014 04:49 PM)dancefortwo Wrote:  Ketamine is what I've read creates a near death experience. So what's the difference between a NDE and an OBE??? Or is it the same thing.

However different parts of the brain may be activated or de-activated in NDE, OBE & Lucid dreaming and a full exploration of the topic has to take into account the pharmacology of psychoactive drugs.
How does a spontaneous OBE differ to that of Ketamine ?
How does a NDE from LSD differ to a NDE post cardiac arrest ?
How does the loss of sense of self compare with various ethnogens/hallucinogenic drugs and meditative experiences ?

For a couple hundred bucks you can buy an EEG headband which offers self-experimenters a new tool to at least begin to answer some of those questions from a personal brainwave perspective.

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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