does life have meaning? does science have meaning?
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19-07-2013, 02:45 PM
RE: does life have meaning? does science have meaning?
(19-07-2013 01:59 PM)I and I Wrote:  
(19-07-2013 07:26 AM)Hafnof Wrote:  So... I'm clearly misunderstanding what you are trying to convey. I suspect I'm not the only one. Do you think there is some way of clarifying it so that your message is clearly communicated?

Clarify my statement on science?

Science is providing answers that attempt to show that life is merely a sum of smaller parts and that there is no meaning beyond this sum of smaller parts.

No, that is not science. That is a philosophical position called reductionism.

Quote:This is a contradiction in science. Humans look for answers to things and question things because we already feel that some meaning exists beyond what we currently know.

Humans feeling that there is some meaning beyond what we know is an epistemological position. There may or may not be.

Quote:Science proceeds as if there is meaning, yet also concludes that meaning doesn't exist.


Contradiction.

You have not demonstrated a contradiction - you have concocted one.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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19-07-2013, 03:08 PM
does life have meaning? does science have meaning?
(19-07-2013 02:45 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(19-07-2013 01:59 PM)I and I Wrote:  Clarify my statement on science?

Science is providing answers that attempt to show that life is merely a sum of smaller parts and that there is no meaning beyond this sum of smaller parts.

No, that is not science. That is a philosophical position called reductionism.

Quote:This is a contradiction in science. Humans look for answers to things and question things because we already feel that some meaning exists beyond what we currently know.

Humans feeling that there is some meaning beyond what we know is an epistemological position. There may or may not be.

Quote:Science proceeds as if there is meaning, yet also concludes that meaning doesn't exist.


Contradiction.

You have not demonstrated a contradiction - you have concocted one.

Many scientist use reductionism as their ideological framework to base their research on. Science today is all about looking for meaning in the small parts, DNA and quantum physics are the fad now days. They believe that the study of small parts provides answers to many things that are outside of these small parts. Mother fucking reductionism.

You seem to have the crazy idea that scientists do research because they don't believe there is a meaning different from and outside of their current understanding of meaning?

If science does not believe in any meaning outside of a current meaning, then what is their motive for doing science in the first place?
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19-07-2013, 08:37 PM
RE: does life have meaning? does science have meaning?
There is a clear difference between science and scientists. One is a method, and one describes a person employing the method. Scientists do what they do for their own reasons, and the motivations, philosophies, and meanings that they give to their work is entirely their own. Science itself has no intrinsic meaning.

If something can be destroyed by the truth, it might be worth destroying.

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19-07-2013, 09:13 PM
RE: does life have meaning? does science have meaning?
(19-07-2013 03:08 PM)I and I Wrote:  
(19-07-2013 02:45 PM)Chas Wrote:  No, that is not science. That is a philosophical position called reductionism.


Humans feeling that there is some meaning beyond what we know is an epistemological position. There may or may not be.


You have not demonstrated a contradiction - you have concocted one.

Many scientist use reductionism as their ideological framework to base their research on. Science today is all about looking for meaning in the small parts, DNA and quantum physics are the fad now days. They believe that the study of small parts provides answers to many things that are outside of these small parts. Mother fucking reductionism.

You seem to have the crazy idea that scientists do research because they don't believe there is a meaning different from and outside of their current understanding of meaning?

If science does not believe in any meaning outside of a current meaning, then what is their motive for doing science in the first place?

We are all reductionists to one extent or another. What exactly is your problem with reductionism? It is a tool for dissecting problems.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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19-07-2013, 09:47 PM
Re: does life have meaning? does science have meaning?
On what basis do you come from when asserting science is unaware of it's closeness to religious thought in that regard.

Often you'll find prominent publicly known scientists staring concepts such as that.

btw usually on the science section, people do find info they didn't already know here. This topic on the other hand is more philosophy than science and is say it ought to be on that section even though it's about science.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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20-07-2013, 06:23 AM
RE: does life have meaning? does science have meaning?
In my experience people do science in order to find out what's true, to benefit humanity, and make a name for themselves by learning something noone has known before or proving someone else wrong. If science proved that nothing were true, humanity can't be benefited by science, nothing can be learned, or noone is wrong then it might be contradictory to undertake these activities. Do you think science proves any of those things?

Give me your argument in the form of a published paper, and then we can start to talk.
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20-07-2013, 11:07 AM
does life have meaning? does science have meaning?
(20-07-2013 06:23 AM)Hafnof Wrote:  In my experience people do science in order to find out what's true, to benefit humanity, and make a name for themselves by learning something noone has known before or proving someone else wrong. If science proved that nothing were true, humanity can't be benefited by science, nothing can be learned, or noone is wrong then it might be contradictory to undertake these activities. Do you think science proves any of those things?

Most scientists don't do things with the desire to benefit people or harm people.

Science doesn't find truths, it finds facts as a result of logical evaluation of the things observed and measured.
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20-07-2013, 12:15 PM
RE: does life have meaning? does science have meaning?
(07-07-2013 02:04 AM)I and I Wrote:  Does science give meaning to life? If one believes that life can be explained as just collections of molecules with no meaning in its assemblages then wouldn't that also go for scientists and everything else that we call "truth" "fact" ? Science today is a huge contradiction, it says that life is just a collection of molecules with no grand meaning, yet it spends billions of dollars on research. What are they looking for? What is their research going towards?

Science is so close to religion yet it is in constant denial of this closeness, they both are the excrement of humanity.
No dude, science is just an instrument to find out how things work, not what meaning do they have. Life doesn't come pre-packaged with meaning either, unless you take this horrible eternal god's ass-kissing meaning that Christians always put into the package. But that must be malware or something. Otherwise it's pretty much a free capacity, DIY meaning-finding process. But that doesn't mean you can shirk it! On the contrary, finding out meaning is a serious business. Good meanings make it easier to get along with masses of people just one finite planet. Bad meanings screw things up for you and lots of other people. Life is a form of art and your parents gave it to you a blank canvas. Then lots of people (including your parents) painted lots of crap over it, so it takes an effort to clear it. But once you do it, you can finally start painting something nice, put some meaning on it.
Clear enough? Wink
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20-07-2013, 06:49 PM
RE: does life have meaning? does science have meaning?
I didn't say most scientists do things to benefit or harm people. I said:
Quote:In my experience people do science in order to find out what's true, to benefit humanity, and make a name for themselves by learning something noone has known before or proving someone else wrong
Since you seem to be saying I'm not correct here... why do you say scientists do what they do? Why do you do what you do?

As for truth, what do you mean by "true" - and what method does find "truths" under your definition?

Give me your argument in the form of a published paper, and then we can start to talk.
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21-07-2013, 08:56 PM
RE: does life have meaning? does science have meaning?
I and I, you are, as always, an idiot. Not for the shit you're saying about science, since I highly doubt that you believe any of it. You're an idiot because you think that pretending to be an idiot is the best way to get attention.

Pull your thumb out of your ass and try learning something, whydon'tcha. And please do resist the urge to smell it; I get the feeling you're that type of narcissistic nitwit.

Once you learn something, you can become good at something. Once you're good at something, if it's useful then society might reward you with money and sex. And then you won't be such a sad sack of shit. I assure you, money and sex are much better than be called an ignorant douche on the internet by people who are smarter than you are.

No one cares about your moronic interpretation of Israeli foreign policy. No one cares about your complete ignorance of epistemology. No one cares about your laughable interpretation of Newtonian physics. No one cares about your disgusting Vladimir Putin fetish. We call you an idiot, mock you, and shoot down your nonsense for the same reason we watch TV: it's an easy way to pass the hours.

If being mildly annoying is the only way that you can get off, then I recommend becoming a tech support specialist. The pay sucks and you'll never get laid, but at least you'll fulfill a marginally useful role in our society while you act like a douche on your way to the grave.




Sincerely,

Everyone

E 2 = (mc 2)2 + (pc )2
614C → 714N + e + ̅νe
2 K(s) + 2 H2O(l) → 2 KOH(aq) + H2 (g) + 196 kJ/mol
It works, bitches.
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