does life have meaning? does science have meaning?
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22-07-2013, 02:18 PM
does life have meaning? does science have meaning?
(20-07-2013 06:49 PM)Hafnof Wrote:  I didn't say most scientists do things to benefit or harm people. I said:
Quote:In my experience people do science in order to find out what's true, to benefit humanity, and make a name for themselves by learning something noone has known before or proving someone else wrong
Since you seem to be saying I'm not correct here... why do you say scientists do what they do? Why do you do what you do?

As for truth, what do you mean by "true" - and what method does find "truths" under your definition?

Science implies that there is a truth or meaning beyond the current known world, this is why it looks for more meaning and truths constantly to explain the world around them.

This is why science is best known for being a tad less shittier than religion and is very similar to religion in its notion of an absolute truth/meaning.
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22-07-2013, 02:27 PM
RE: does life have meaning? does science have meaning?
(22-07-2013 02:18 PM)I and I Wrote:  
(20-07-2013 06:49 PM)Hafnof Wrote:  I didn't say most scientists do things to benefit or harm people. I said:
Since you seem to be saying I'm not correct here... why do you say scientists do what they do? Why do you do what you do?

As for truth, what do you mean by "true" - and what method does find "truths" under your definition?

Science implies that there is a truth or meaning beyond the current known world, this is why it looks for more meaning and truths constantly to explain the world around them.

This is why science is best known for being a tad less shittier than religion and is very similar to religion in its notion of an absolute truth/meaning.

No and no.

In science, all knowledge is provisional. Not similar in any way to religion.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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22-07-2013, 03:22 PM
does life have meaning? does science have meaning?
(22-07-2013 02:27 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(22-07-2013 02:18 PM)I and I Wrote:  Science implies that there is a truth or meaning beyond the current known world, this is why it looks for more meaning and truths constantly to explain the world around them.

This is why science is best known for being a tad less shittier than religion and is very similar to religion in its notion of an absolute truth/meaning.

No and no.

In science, all knowledge is provisional. Not similar in any way to religion.

Scientists look for answers/meaning/truths beyond their current understanding of things.

Agree or disagree?

Psst Chas is just faces with a direct question will he

A. Play semantics. (What do you mean by agree)

B. Run from the question entirely.
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22-07-2013, 03:39 PM
RE: does life have meaning? does science have meaning?
(22-07-2013 03:22 PM)I and I Wrote:  
(22-07-2013 02:27 PM)Chas Wrote:  No and no.

In science, all knowledge is provisional. Not similar in any way to religion.

Scientists look for answers/meaning/truths beyond their current understanding of things.

Agree or disagree?

Psst Chas is just faces with a direct question will he

A. Play semantics. (What do you mean by agree)

B. Run from the question entirely.

Why do you always need to be such a confrontational asshole? Consider

Of course scientists look for answers beyond what is known - that's what science is about.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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22-07-2013, 03:39 PM
RE: does life have meaning? does science have meaning?
(22-07-2013 02:18 PM)I and I Wrote:  Science implies that there is a truth or meaning beyond the current known world, this is why it looks for more meaning and truths constantly to explain the world around them.

This is why science is best known for being a tad less shittier than religion and is very similar to religion in its notion of an absolute truth/meaning.

So science, which is predicated on the notion that it doesn't know everything, is very similar to religion, which is predicated on the notion that it does.

Okay then.

... this is my signature!
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22-07-2013, 04:05 PM
RE: does life have meaning? does science have meaning?
(22-07-2013 03:22 PM)I and I Wrote:  
(22-07-2013 02:27 PM)Chas Wrote:  No and no.

In science, all knowledge is provisional. Not similar in any way to religion.

Scientists look for answers/meaning/truths beyond their current understanding of things.

Agree or disagree?

Psst Chas is just faces with a direct question will he

A. Play semantics. (What do you mean by agree)

B. Run from the question entirely.


Maybe it's time for you to make this post here:
I and I on other forum Wrote:My Appologies
I am sorry to the atheist community for the lack of respect that I have displayed on this forum.

I will not post another peep on your forums after this.

I appreciate the balance that people who are willing to speak out against religion bring to our global community and you are all soldiers for that reason.

Take care and all the best.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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22-07-2013, 06:24 PM
RE: does life have meaning? does science have meaning?
(22-07-2013 02:18 PM)I and I Wrote:  
(20-07-2013 06:49 PM)Hafnof Wrote:  I didn't say most scientists do things to benefit or harm people. I said:
Since you seem to be saying I'm not correct here... why do you say scientists do what they do? Why do you do what you do?

As for truth, what do you mean by "true" - and what method does find "truths" under your definition?

Science implies that there is a truth or meaning beyond the current known world, this is why it looks for more meaning and truths constantly to explain the world around them.

This is why science is best known for being a tad less shittier than religion and is very similar to religion in its notion of an absolute truth/meaning.

Science implies there are facts beyond the known facts that if known would benefit humanity. Science has a strong track record in finding such facts, and based on current trajectories of paper publication we can extrapolate to predict that new facts will be identified in the future and that these will in fact benefit humanity. It's hard to know for sure whether the investment into science will continue to yield positive returns, but again extrapolating the track record of science I think we can be reasonably confident that positive returns will result from continued investment.

Again these terms "meaning" and "truth" and even "fact" you seem to be using them in a way that implies ideas that are not clearly expressed in your posts. You seem to be attaching metaphysical significance to the plain physical facts that science is geared towards uncovering, and transcendental significance to the search itself.

Again you seem to be saying that undertaking this activity that has clearly benefited humanity in the past, is clearly benefiting humanity in the present, and we can extrapolate to predict will benefit humanity in the future - and you're saying to do these things is to exist as human excrement. Now you're clarifying and saying "ok, the people who made it possible for me to live in the way that I do are shit. Definitely shit. Not quite as shit as the people who want me to suffer infinite unceasing torture, but really really shit."

I'm not seeing how you justify that from your posts.

Give me your argument in the form of a published paper, and then we can start to talk.
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23-07-2013, 03:10 PM
RE: does life have meaning? does science have meaning?
everyone has to create their own meaning of life...
mine just happens to be raw rampant creativity...
and sciense is one of my many tools mainly computer sciense in my case and electronics...

its very fitting that creativity is my passion because it kind means that when i make that my lives meaning its yet another manifesation of creativity...

Hell i even made my own perivate psudo-religion Smile
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24-07-2013, 03:05 AM
RE: does life have meaning? does science have meaning?
Science is to a problem solver what drugs is to an addict. It's not just a job it is an obsession.

Science is an approach of kicking the tyres of the universe to try and work out how it ticks. At best science can only come up with conceptual models which apply consistently to observations and hopefully predicts future observations. Nothing can 100% be proven as fact but we can prove with 100% certainty that some things are incorrect.
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24-07-2013, 06:27 AM
does life have meaning? does science have meaning?
(24-07-2013 03:05 AM)Stevil Wrote:  Science is to a problem solver what drugs is to an addict. It's not just a job it is an obsession.

Science is an approach of kicking the tyres of the universe to try and work out how it ticks. At best science can only come up with conceptual models which apply consistently to observations and hopefully predicts future observations. Nothing can 100% be proven as fact but we can prove with 100% certainty that some things are incorrect.

I agree. We can also show faults in logic and reason that humans use.
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