email from my xtian mom
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24-10-2010, 07:54 PM
email from my xtian mom
I've recently revealed to my parents that I don't believe in God, I haven't actually used the word atheist, but i don't see the difference. My mom just sent me this email:

"
If we were made by chance from chemicals (as you say) or out of the slime with a bolt of lightning(as evolutionists say) and not by a specific plan,
Then why do we experience pleasure? Why do we have senses to smell, taste, touch, when many of these are not here to help us survive or stay alive? Why would anything that happened by chance, need to feel pleasure to stay alive?
Why do flowers have different smells? Did they need that to stay alive? Why are there so many colors in nature? Most animals and insects are color blind.
I believe God created us to feel pleasure and to enjoy life, and that God enjoys watching us enjoy life. I believe God had a very specific plan in mind when he created us. Our purpose in life is to bring him glory and honor and he gives us free will to chose whether to do that or not.
"
i answered:
"
Its funny that you keep saying evolutionists think we were created from slime and lightning, because that actually basically is what the bible says. Just replace lightning with God and its the same idea (God created man from dirt). But, evolutionists don't say that we were made out of slime with a bolt of lightning, science doesn't pretend to know how life started. Evolution is simply: (taken straight from the dictionary) Evolution (also known as biological, genetic or organic evolution) is the change in the inherited traits of a population of organisms through successive generations. We see micro evolution all the time, bacteria and viruses build a resistance to drugs requiring a heavier dosage, insects build resistances to pesticide. This happens because the insects and bacteria that survive go on to reproduce and pass their genes on to their children, who in turn are resistant to the chemical/drug.

We have senses of smell and taste so that we don't eat poisonous foods, we have sense of touch (pressure, pain, heat) so that we don't get hurt. Pleasure helps us to reproduce, it'd be pretty hard to do so without pleasure. On the other hand, why if we were made by a divine all knowing creator, would we be stuck with wisdom teeth, tail bones and appendix's? Pretty useless things if you ask me

Flowers have different smells and colors for the same reason humans have different skin colors, eye color, hair color etc. Evolution creates variety, and the smell from flowers IS usually necessary for reproduction. Part of the way bee's find flowers to pollinate them is smell.

If God created us to enjoy life, why does he allow horrible things to happen? Hurricanes, floods, mudslides, mass murder, war, famine and disease. How is it a plan to allow an infant to die from disease, starvation, murder or being left in a trashcan?
"

Does anyone have anything to add that I could say to her? I feel like theres a lot more questions I can ask her, but I'm drawing a blank
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24-10-2010, 08:00 PM (This post was last modified: 24-10-2010 08:04 PM by Godless.)
RE: email from my xtian mom
It's a little known fact but one of the most accessible and conclusive proof of human evolution lies in our goose bumps.

You know those little bumps you get all over your skin when you get cold or experience a sudden fright. Those goosebumps are a mark left by our ape ancestors who used to puff up their fur when frightened or to stay warm.

Also you should try and touch as harsh as it can be on to create something who's only purpose is to worship you for all eternity. Think about that picture for a moment. You are stuck in one place simply worshiping a being for all time. I can't help but think of that as torture.

Her definition of purpose of life is nothing short of devaluing humans as being pawns of god. If humanity is not created by a higher power does that not make the very life and pleasure she values all the more precious?

edit: I should note by the sound of the e-mail your mom gets full well that your an Atheist. If you had simply changed religions bringing up the purpose of life would likely not be something she would do.
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24-10-2010, 08:25 PM
RE: email from my xtian mom
(24-10-2010 08:00 PM)Godless Wrote:  It's a little known fact but one of the most accessible and conclusive proof of human evolution lies in our goose bumps.

You know those little bumps you get all over your skin when you get cold or experience a sudden fright. Those goosebumps are a mark left by our ape ancestors who used to puff up their fur when frightened or to stay warm.

Also you should try and touch as harsh as it can be on to create something who's only purpose is to worship you for all eternity. Think about that picture for a moment. You are stuck in one place simply worshiping a being for all time. I can't help but think of that as torture.

Her definition of purpose of life is nothing short of devaluing humans as being pawns of god. If humanity is not created by a higher power does that not make the very life and pleasure she values all the more precious?

edit: I should note by the sound of the e-mail your mom gets full well that your an Atheist. If you had simply changed religions bringing up the purpose of life would likely not be something she would do.

Yes, perfect. I'll definitely bring these up next time I write to her! I'm also going to try to work my way to refuting the bible/jesus because she has already said that the thing that stuck out to her is the 500 "witnesses" of Jesus' resurrection. And I agree, they probably understand that I'm an atheist, but I don't think they know how serious I am about it. Thanks for your thoughts and time Big Grin
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24-10-2010, 08:44 PM
RE: email from my xtian mom
Your response was fine. Remember to be as polite as possible, you don't want to start a fight
with your own mother. Simply answer the questions she throws at you in a straight forward
manner and make sure you read up on it before answering. I recommend you watch the YouTube
series "Discovering Religion" and even recommend it to your mother. Try and turn this email debate
into an education session for your mom rather than simply defending yourself as an atheist.

http://www.youtube.com/user/DiscoveringReligion

http://www.youtube.com/user/MindprowlerMusic
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24-10-2010, 09:00 PM
RE: email from my xtian mom
(24-10-2010 08:44 PM)Mindprowler Wrote:  Your response was fine. Remember to be as polite as possible, you don't want to start a fight
with your own mother. Simply answer the questions she throws at you in a straight forward
manner and make sure you read up on it before answering. I recommend you watch the YouTube
series "Discovering Religion" and even recommend it to your mother. Try and turn this email debate
into an education session for your mom rather than simply defending yourself as an atheist.

http://www.youtube.com/user/DiscoveringReligion

Just finished the first video that you suggested, looks like it will be an interesting series. Thanks for providing a link for it.

I thought I was pretty polite in my response, and I certainly don't want a fight seeing as she's one of my employers!
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24-10-2010, 09:24 PM
 
RE: email from my xtian mom
She's your mother.
As a Christian she's taught to fear for your very soul, because she believes in such things and that it is in peril when you deviate from the faith.
She may be arguing slime and lightening, and retorts may arise as goosebumps derived from former ape cousins, however you might consider she's doing what she can because her faith makes her genuinely afraid for you, her beloved child. Regardless of your age today.

You'll never argue her out of her faith, while she appears to be trying to debate you out of the logic of accepting the antithesis of your former self, as a believer just like her.
One thing I said to my mom, who's Baptist, when she attempted to argue like unto your mother, is this. Mom, you know I love you as my creator, no matter what you imagine is alive unseen and responsible for that above and beyond yourself. You raised me as your daughter, now you have to trust you did a good job and I know enough to live my own life, thanks to what you instilled in me to do that. If there is a God, what I'm doing isn't surprising omniscience at all. And if he's benevolent, he'll not hold it against me either.

She's never said a word about my path since.
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24-10-2010, 10:41 PM
RE: email from my xtian mom
A long time ago I explained to my mother that my atheism is not a rejection of her God. It's the acknowledgment that I don't think he's real. I don't hate what I don't believe. That was important for her to hear.
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25-10-2010, 01:36 AM
 
RE: email from my xtian mom
Your mother is likely concerned for you because of her beliefs. It's unlikely you can convince her to abandon a life-long belief system via logical arguments, but I see nothing wrong with responding to her comments, so long as neither of you become angry and/or frustrated with the absence of a "conversion". Part of growing up is learning to think for yourself. The fact that you have done so says something good about your upbringing and so she should be proud that you are seeking to make your own life choices. Despite being a devout christian, my mother accepted my declaration of atheism without much difficulty. I know it was painful for her, as it likely is for your mother ... but she came to accept it and it became a non-issue between us.
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26-10-2010, 05:35 AM
RE: email from my xtian mom
Wait...

Some people think that sight, taste, smell, pleasure, pain are not used for surviving?

[Image: sigone_zps207cf92c.png]

Leonard Nimoy
1931-2015
Live long and prosper.
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26-10-2010, 01:45 PM
 
RE: email from my xtian mom
As for science having no clue as to how life started, I recommend you watch this video, and have your mom watch it too.

It is just one of many possibilities, but because there are possibilities for it to occur spontaneously, there need not be divine intervention.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6QYDdgP9eg
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