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14-03-2015, 04:02 PM
RE: evil
(14-03-2015 06:43 AM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(14-03-2015 05:39 AM)soul Wrote:  I have reported this scumdog on the cybertipline for ncmec with urlstamp and time and date as a written incitement to illegal sexual activity with a minor. Good luck when the feds look into this forum.

Which minor was that? If LaramieHirsch don't have a 7 yo daughter all you've done is strain the resources of an already overburdened organization trying to do good deeds without the distraction of bogus and frivolous reports. Chas is right, you are an idiot.
There is a "Report" button. If you are worried about something like this then the moderators can easily remove the post and warn the offender. If the moderators don't act accordingly then perhaps take the matter up further if you think it is a real threat.

From what I read of the original comment it was over the top but it certainly didn't come across as a threat. There didn't seem to be any genuine anger or hatred from the poster to his audience it more seemed like an extreme example to show what "evil" might be.

Anyway whatever.
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14-03-2015, 04:17 PM
RE: evil
Apology offered.

Apology accepted.

Opinions noted.

Let's change the subject, please.

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14-03-2015, 05:52 PM
RE: evil
Continuing responses to page 22:

(13-03-2015 08:26 AM)undergroundp Wrote:  You do realize that the concepts of "good" and "evil" precede Christianity (and possibly religions in general), don't you?

Sure. Before Christianity, there were the Israelites. Before the Flood, there was Adam, Eve, and everyone else who got to see frequent divine interventions. The concept of good and evil stretches back before Creation itself.

(13-03-2015 02:36 PM)Stevil Wrote:  There are some "real" things to consider when navigating through life within a society.

Worrying about good and bad and being a good person is not "real" it's an indulgent prideful self portrait.

The real aspects of honesty are this.
If you are caught being dishonest then you lose the trust of others. Then they are less likely to confide in you, less likely to share their private lives with you, less likely to do business with you.
We also have a sphere of influence on our society. Some people have bigger sphere's than others. But we do have this and often our behaviors bounce back at us. If we want society to be for the most part honest and trust worthy then we improve the chances of it being this way by behaving that way ourselves.
Why would we want society to be honest and trustworthy? Because we don't want to be deceived, we don't want to be conned.

I've addressed most of this stuff already, and I'd just defer to the analogy of one protoplast not caring about the rest of the protoplast colony.

And, again, if there is no universal good or evil--and if those terms only mean anything to individuals or societies of people--then, as I said, who cares? Bending the rules, being dishonest, scoffing at the law, it would only make sense for a person in a godless world to have only self interest.

In fact, I argue that people are collectively realizing this fact as Western society more and more ejects this concept of universal morality from our culture. As evidence, we can just look at the rise of the anti-hero in our stories. That is to say, we now root for villains, ruthless people, and scoundrels as if they are heroes. Hannibal, Frank Underwood, Dexter, Deadpool, Jackson Teller, and most of our modern vampire fiction--all of this has readers and viewers rooting for the "evil" person who bends and breaks society's rules.

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14-03-2015, 06:12 PM
RE: evil
(14-03-2015 05:52 PM)LaramieHirsch Wrote:  ...
it would only make sense for a person in a godless world to have only self interest.
...
And this has been addressed, too.

I don't get it. Is it that you are not reading our replies or simply not comprehending the message?

LaramieHirsch Wrote:...
all of this has readers and viewers rooting for the "evil" person who bends and breaks society's rules.

Anti-heroes are your evidence for rejection of universal morality? Are you serious?

Huh

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14-03-2015, 06:21 PM
RE: evil
(14-03-2015 06:12 PM)DLJ Wrote:  I don't get it. Is it that you are not reading our replies or simply not comprehending the message?

No no. It's just that there were a lot of people responding to me, and I'm trying to reply to them all. I know that I could be covering old ground, and I'm trying to catch myself.

(14-03-2015 06:12 PM)DLJ Wrote:  Anti-heroes are your evidence for rejection of universal morality? Are you serious?

Of course. Absolutely.

How do you tell which way the wind is blowing in a society? Look at their culture. Look at what they do for leisure. Look at who they idolize and adore. "Follow the zeitgeist," as it were.

People in Western civilization have begun to reject universal morality. Anti-heroes in our fiction is merely one example of this--and I'm only pointing to one example for now. I'm not listing a whole cacophony of examples, because I don't speak like an encyclopedia.

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14-03-2015, 06:25 PM
RE: evil
(14-03-2015 05:52 PM)LaramieHirsch Wrote:  In fact, I argue that people are collectively realizing this fact as Western society more and more ejects this concept of universal morality from our culture. As evidence, we can just look at the rise of the anti-hero in our stories. That is to say, we now root for villains, ruthless people, and scoundrels as if they are heroes. Hannibal, Frank Underwood, Dexter, Deadpool, Jackson Teller, and most of our modern vampire fiction--all of this has readers and viewers rooting for the "evil" person who bends and breaks society's rules.

I'm not into vampire stuff, I've never watched Hannibal, Deadpool, and no clue who Jackson Teller is.

Frank Underwood I can't say I cheer for him or even remotely like. I watch to see who he'll screw over to make his next move and how far he'll take things before his "house of cards" tumbles around him. Will he end up in prison? Will he be exposed as the liar he is? Or is he cat with nine lives that lands on his feet?

Dexter, the first couple seasons were pretty good, but again, I didn't cheer for him or his sense of justice, his ethics, or the way he was portrayed as a serial killer who kills only bad people. I watched that show to see how far they'd take it. It really should have ended after three seasons.

Having said this, there is something about the underdog who we do often root for. When the first Rocky movie came out, men stood up during the fight scene and chanted his name in the theater. But the underdog could be a good or bad person depending on the story or how it's written.


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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14-03-2015, 06:32 PM
RE: evil
I do not know what Ameron1963's posts are consistently like. However, he knew he went over the top, he apologized, and I accepted. You don't see that too often.

As for GirlyMan's post #254, you've won a spot with the ignored. I'm not going to tolerate unregretful adolescent filth such as that. That is very below standard, and very cheap, among other things.

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14-03-2015, 07:12 PM
RE: evil
(14-03-2015 06:21 PM)LaramieHirsch Wrote:  
(14-03-2015 06:12 PM)DLJ Wrote:  Anti-heroes are your evidence for rejection of universal morality? Are you serious?

Of course. Absolutely.

How do you tell which way the wind is blowing in a society? Look at their culture. Look at what they do for leisure. Look at who they idolize and adore. "Follow the zeitgeist," as it were.
...

Agreed but...

[Image: o-ROMAN-GLADIATORS-ETCHING-facebook.jpg]

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14-03-2015, 10:43 PM
RE: evil
(14-03-2015 07:12 PM)DLJ Wrote:  
(14-03-2015 06:21 PM)LaramieHirsch Wrote:  Of course. Absolutely.

How do you tell which way the wind is blowing in a society? Look at their culture. Look at what they do for leisure. Look at who they idolize and adore. "Follow the zeitgeist," as it were.
...

Agreed but...

[Image: o-ROMAN-GLADIATORS-ETCHING-facebook.jpg]


Yeah, I guess the idea of 'people doing good in spite of themselves' as a popular and compelling motif is just lost on him... Dodgy

[Image: E3WvRwZ.gif]
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14-03-2015, 11:21 PM
RE: evil
Reply to Chas from pg 22-23.



(13-03-2015 08:32 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(12-03-2015 10:47 PM)LaramieHirsch Wrote:  Look, if there's no God, and all a person has is a small 40-70 year window of time of existence, then even if he is considered to be "a moral creature," and even if he does belong to a species that shares a "moral sense," and even if people are evolutionarily empathetic, the question still stands: who cares?

We care. Do you not?

...So, you have no moral sense except that imposed on you by your religion.


I'll begin by noting that there's a difference in this post when I speak of caring and when speaking of my moral sense.

I, of course, care. I try to be a faithful Catholic. The main things that steer me to care about other people are: Love for God and His Immutable Truth of Creation, my love for fellow humans and the desire to see them join me in this quest to reach Heaven. and finally, my investment in people.

Those are the things that drive me to care about people.

There is something else that causes me to want to preserve people from evil: the Natural Law that God built into us all.

My moral sense comes from the truth of God's existence, His Natural Law, and my decision to follow his Divine Law. And most people--even if they abandon the pursuit to follow Divine Law--they still mostly follow Natural Law. Most people are unaware that Natural Law is written into their hearts. But folks do tend to struggle against Natural Law because it inconveniences them. Once these individuals break free of it, their minds become clouded as they give in to vice, and their minds become disordered. It's a hard thing to climb out of.

The truth is that we do not live in a godless world. We live in a created world. Because of the latter, many things are in place that give us a sense of morality, whether we acknowledge that or not.


(13-03-2015 08:32 AM)Chas Wrote:  Individuals do not evolve, populations do.

Individuals within a population must "make the jump" in order for micro evolution to occur.


(13-03-2015 08:32 AM)Chas Wrote:  
Quote:If atheist, there is no Supreme Being, and therefore no accountability for actions beyond this life. If atheist, why even be honest? If atheist, why even attempt income in the standard fashion as the rest of your own species? If atheist, pure unadulterated hedonism would be the ultimate end.

Since you don't understand what atheism or morality are, I can understand that you would make such a silly statement. You are only embarrassing yourself.

Since you don't understand what atheism or morality are, I can understand that you would make such a silly statement. You are only embarrassing yourself. Smile

(13-03-2015 04:11 PM)Chas Wrote:  My lack of belief in any gods does not dictate my morality.


Yes, it does. Your lack of belief in Creation dictates your morality. You would behave differently if you believed that your everyday sins were insulting your Creator over and over. At the least, you might try living up to a bare minimum standard if you considered that Hell dangles over your head like the sword of Damaclese.


(12-03-2015 10:47 PM)LaramieHirsch Wrote:  However, whether you are atheist or a theist, there is one truth that supersedes all of us, no matter what you believe. That truth is that God created us with Natural Law instilled in our hearts.


(13-03-2015 04:11 PM)Chas Wrote:  That is your belief, it is not a universally accepted or recognized truth. The truth is that our moral sense evolved.

That is not what I believe. That is what I know. It used to be universally accepted and recognized truth. Our moral sense has since deteriorated.



(13-03-2015 04:11 PM)Chas Wrote:  Please define 'Natural Law', then describe who is abandoning it and in what manner.

Then please provide evidence of the existence of demons.
Then provide evidence that you know what their feelings are.

You sure do ask for a lot. If you really wanted to know the answers to your questions, wouldn't you have looked them up on the internet by now?

Natural Law is the commandments wrriten on Man's heart, and they show the essential duties and fundamental rights inherent in human nature. To quote a historical document written by men with Classical educations: "We hold these truths to be self evident." Sinful humanity is capable of discovering the natural laws written in people's hearts, but help is required to realize all of the requirements of natural law. Everyone on all continents are obliged and called to follow the Natural Law written on their hearts.

A simple example of someone abdandoning Natural Law would be a regretless glutton. It is good to nourish the human body. But to indulge your appetite to the detriment of your physical body or spiritual formation is wrong. Everyone knows you should not indulge your appeitite in that fashion. But some disregard their common sense and the warnings that people tell them, and they just keep on eating either too much food or too much unhealthy "food," and they keep drinking high fructose corn syrup beverages. Before they know it, that person has diabetes, nasty swollen gangrenous legs that are ready for amputation, blood pressure issues, and heart failure at the age of 53.

Existence of demons? Evidence that I know what their feelings are? That is another thread entirely. I'm giving you the Catholic perspective. I'll be happy to devote an entire thread to that some other time, but not now.


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