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08-03-2015, 09:20 AM
RE: evil
(08-03-2015 06:50 AM)unfogged Wrote:  
(08-03-2015 06:05 AM)soul Wrote:  Atheism clearly denounces things...

Atheism doesn't denounce anything. Atheism is the lack of belief in a god. It has no dogma, doctrines, rituals, etc.

Atheists individually denounce many things.

Quote:clearly feels religion is a negative....

Atheism doesn't feel anything about religion. Atheists think about the claims made by religions and reject them due to lack of supporting evidence. Atheists determine that living your life according to unsubstantiated claims, and pushing those unsupported beliefs onto others, has negative consequences.

Quote:speaks in tones of violated justice...

Because justice is often violated by the religious; slavery, subjugation of women, prejudice against homosexuality, etc.

Quote:all things which it has no logical basis to do following the premise there is no First Cause..or what we theists call God.

The basis is the fact that we evolved as a social species with the ability to understand and appreciate fairness.

Quote:Atheism gives no explination for evil...(btw I dont bother with spelling...if that bothers you just iggy me)

Atheism gives no explanation for anything. Atheism is only a reaction to theism. Theism doesn't explain why some people perform actions that we label "evil" either; it just makes assertions without evidence that actually don't explain anything. Sociology is much more likely to help you understand "evil" than religion.
why does theism require a reaction....further.... I dont need to understand evil I am trying to figure how people who reject a first cause or lawgiver use the concept in their thinking. Frankly there is no such thing as good or evil in atheistic thought if it wishes to be consistant.
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08-03-2015, 09:30 AM
RE: evil
(08-03-2015 09:02 AM)DLJ Wrote:  
(08-03-2015 08:39 AM)Chas Wrote:  That's wrong. Drinking Beverage

We have a common evolved basic moral sense. On that base, we construct a social agreement. We are the lawgiver.

^^^
That.

Yes

So if a stronger "moral" lawgiving human comes along like say Stalin...his laws are now the social contract? If redneck americans get together and restore segregation and jim crow laws...by a fair vote( if such a concept could exist) then that becomes the social agreement?
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08-03-2015, 09:32 AM
RE: evil
(08-03-2015 09:20 AM)soul Wrote:  why does theism require a reaction...

Because of the negative effects of using unsupported ideas to create laws and direct social customs.

Quote: I dont need to understand evil I am trying to figure how people who reject a first cause or lawgiver use the concept in their thinking. Frankly there is no such thing as good or evil in atheistic thought if it wishes to be consistant.

What is "atheistic thought"? Your terminology demonstrates that you have no clue what atheism entails or how atheists typically approach questions. Chas has already explained a basis for defining good and evil with regard to human societies. Blind obedience to a mythical "lawgiver" is, at best, amoral. Something is not "evil" because you are told that it is; it is "evil" because of the evaluation of the consequences.

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
America July 4 1776 - November 8 2016 RIP
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08-03-2015, 09:35 AM
RE: evil
(08-03-2015 09:30 AM)soul Wrote:  So if a stronger "moral" lawgiving human comes along like say Stalin...his laws are now the social contract?

You keep looking for a central authority figure to hand down directives that you then follow without the need to think. You should try thinking for yourself sometime. It can be very liberating.

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
America July 4 1776 - November 8 2016 RIP
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08-03-2015, 09:37 AM
RE: evil
Who defines which consequences are positive or negative?( euphamisms for good and bad of course)...I can only understand atheism by atheists...but you bring up a good point...since you have no absolutes ( or appear to argue against them) as Atheists you yourselves have nothing more complex to offer then...there is no first cause...lawgiver...God.
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08-03-2015, 09:40 AM
RE: evil
(08-03-2015 09:35 AM)unfogged Wrote:  
(08-03-2015 09:30 AM)soul Wrote:  So if a stronger "moral" lawgiving human comes along like say Stalin...his laws are now the social contract?

You keep looking for a central authority figure to hand down directives that you then follow without the need to think. You should try thinking for yourself sometime. It can be very liberating.
That is not what I am doing at all...and it is from my own thinking...I am expressing my personal thoughts on the matter...do you have any evidence to the contrary...beyond your own bias against the thoughts I am thinking I mean
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08-03-2015, 09:41 AM
RE: evil
(08-03-2015 09:30 AM)soul Wrote:  ...
So if a stronger "moral" lawgiving human comes along like say Stalin...his laws are now the social contract? If redneck americans get together and restore segregation and jim crow laws...by a fair vote( if such a concept could exist) then that becomes the social agreement?

Hehehe. Nice try.

I kinda think you think you're dealing with amateurs here. Laugh out load

OK. I'll play.

:returns volley, noting that 'moral' is in scare quotes:

Yup. That, from a historical perspective certainly is what happens.

Do you think that's how it ought to be?

Your serve.

Wink

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08-03-2015, 09:42 AM
RE: evil
(08-03-2015 06:46 AM)DLJ Wrote:  
(08-03-2015 06:42 AM)soul Wrote:  ...
Is something being interesting a "good" thing?

Is it? No. Not from a nihilistic perspective. It's neither good nor bad.

Ought it be? I choose to think so. Don't you?
Yes and this discussion has been interesting..thanks
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08-03-2015, 09:45 AM
RE: evil
(08-03-2015 09:37 AM)soul Wrote:  Who defines which consequences are positive or negative?( euphamisms for good and bad of course)...

We all do, both individually and collectively.

Quote:I can only understand atheism by atheists...but you bring up a good point...since you have no absolutes ( or appear to argue against them) as Atheists you yourselves have nothing more complex to offer then...there is no first cause...lawgiver...God.

You are beginning to get it, but I would not say it is not more complex. In theory it is pretty simple. In practice it is not at all easy. We've gotten better (in my opinion) over time but not without significant areas of backsliding. We don't have all the answers and, more importantly, we don't pretend to like theists do.

Atheists can try things and change course if reality doesn't match expectations and goals. Theists are locked into bronze-age rules.

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
America July 4 1776 - November 8 2016 RIP
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08-03-2015, 09:45 AM
RE: evil
(08-03-2015 09:30 AM)soul Wrote:  
(08-03-2015 09:02 AM)DLJ Wrote:  ^^^
That.

Yes

So if a stronger "moral" lawgiving human comes along like say Stalin...his laws are now the social contract? If redneck americans get together and restore segregation and jim crow laws...by a fair vote( if such a concept could exist) then that becomes the social agreement?

Yes, that's exactly what happens in this world. Stalin's laws were enforced over the region that he ruled. Same with Hitler, until we told him no with a bunch of firepower. He eventually got the point......

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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