evil and God
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23-06-2016, 11:31 AM
RE: evil and God
(23-06-2016 09:05 AM)godisinspiteofevil Wrote:  
(23-06-2016 08:48 AM)Chas Wrote:  Even if we were to accept those premises (it is not certain that we should), that says nothing at all about what form that cause takes.
This type of argument invariably requires other assumptions which have not been justified or even specified.


Not necessarily. It may be an eternal cycle of expansion and contraction.

Agreed. However, these premises I think point to a cause outside of the natural realm since this cause created the natural realm.

Why do you assume this is the only natural 'realm'?

Quote:That would bring into possibility the existence of the supernatural.

Only if you assume this is the only natural 'realm'.

Quote:Since the supernatural cannot be observed or repeated through our scientific method which can only measure "natural" processes, it should not be discounted.

It can be utterly discounted since if it is undetectable it can have no effects and is therefore non-existent.

Quote: Many possibilities could be derived but the most plausible would be the Abrahamic God and His declaration of creation in Genesis 1.

Seriously? That is "the most plausible"? It is utterly ridiculous and you have no imagination.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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23-06-2016, 11:43 AM
RE: evil and God
(23-06-2016 09:05 AM)godisinspiteofevil Wrote:  Many possibilities could be derived but the most plausible would be the Abrahamic God and His declaration of creation in Genesis 1.

How many other creation stories have you examined in detail to arrive at the conclusion that the Abrahamic god is the most plausible? What criteria did you use to evaluate them?

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23-06-2016, 12:23 PM
RE: evil and God
(22-06-2016 08:55 AM)Aliza Wrote:  Involved, but less involved than I think the Christian G-d is depicted to be. I guess my concept of G-d is a little more like the Force in Star Wars. I've also heard respected Rabbis compare Judaism with the Matrix 1.

Sounds like pseudo-Deism with a dash of Wacho. Blink


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23-06-2016, 12:27 PM
RE: evil and God
(23-06-2016 11:10 AM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  
(23-06-2016 11:04 AM)devilsadvoc8 Wrote:  Hey don't drag the mighty Cthulhu's name into this inane argument. Cthulhu deserves better.

True. The mythology is better written and more consistent. Thumbsup

Obviously written by one of the sort of people who love crafting these things.

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23-06-2016, 12:32 PM
RE: evil and God
(22-06-2016 04:13 PM)Reltzik Wrote:  
(22-06-2016 11:27 AM)godisinspiteofevil Wrote:  Sorry to hear about the horrible suffering the 3 year old is enduring. How can this suffering however, disprove the existence of God. Choices have consequences even to those not directly responsible for the poor choice.

I am not inferring God could NOT stop all evil, just that it is possible He is preventing much of it and only allowing it to remind humans we are created and under authority of the creator.

Gee. When my phone company wants to remind me that my ADHD kicked in again and I missed a payment, they send a pretty polite letter. It's nice. It spells out all the fees, when I missed it, what my balance is, include a self-addressed envelope, and even print a phone number for contacting customer support if I want to inquire about or contest what's happened. The stationary isn't all that fancy, but they've got a nice colorful letterhead and everything.

THEY DO NOT SEND CANCER. WHAT THE FUCK KIND OF REMINDER IS CANCER?

Also, they send it to me and not some random baby.

THIS, 10^1,000,000,000 this.

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23-06-2016, 12:44 PM
RE: evil and God
(23-06-2016 09:05 AM)godisinspiteofevil Wrote:  Agreed. However, these premises I think point to a cause outside of the natural realm since this cause created the natural realm. That would bring into possibility the existence of the supernatural. Since the supernatural cannot be observed or repeated through our scientific method which can only measure "natural" processes, it should not be discounted. Many possibilities could be derived but the most plausible would be the Abrahamic God and His declaration of creation in Genesis 1.

No. It's incoherent. Creation is an action. It requires thought and time. It also requires Causality, (which cannot be explained ... how can Causality be caused). The Reality your god finds itself in, is not explained, in any way. The "Abrahamic god" came straight from Babylonian mythology. He was the 40th son of El Elyon. You just don't know any history.




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23-06-2016, 03:18 PM
RE: evil and God
Since the existence of an infinite number of gods outside of existence cannot be observed or repeated through our scientific method which can only measure "natural" processes, it should not be discounted that an infinite number of gods are in a constant battle of King of the hill.

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23-06-2016, 03:32 PM
RE: evil and God
(23-06-2016 09:38 AM)godisinspiteofevil Wrote:  
(23-06-2016 09:09 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  How do you know that the cause you appeal to occurred outside the natural realm? What evidence can you present to substantiate the claim that there exists a supernatural realm from which your cause could have originated?

Wouldn't it be more probable that a timeless, spaceless, immaterial creator who has no beginning since He created time, space, and material matter is the cause rather than any other proposition?

No. And I don't think you know dick about probability.

#sigh
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23-06-2016, 03:41 PM
RE: evil and God
(23-06-2016 12:23 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  
(22-06-2016 08:55 AM)Aliza Wrote:  Involved, but less involved than I think the Christian G-d is depicted to be. I guess my concept of G-d is a little more like the Force in Star Wars. I've also heard respected Rabbis compare Judaism with the Matrix 1.

Sounds like pseudo-Deism with a dash of Wacho. Blink


http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0133093/

What it is not is just Christianity without Jesus.
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23-06-2016, 05:45 PM
RE: evil and God
(23-06-2016 07:46 AM)godisinspiteofevil Wrote:  
(22-06-2016 10:17 PM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  OP question for you:

Do you accept the Biblical account that Adam and Eve ate from the forbidden tree and at that point gained knowledge of good and evil?

Yes.
OK so my first follow up question is why were Adam and Eve punished?

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