evil and God
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22-06-2016, 12:27 PM
RE: evil and God
The issue isn't so much a question of whether a God exists in a world where evil also exists. It's a question of "Does this God ever have any effect on our lives in any tangible way whatsoever?"

If the answer is "Yes, he performs miracles!" then he is straight up evil since he's favoring certain people and interfering with their lives to produce a positive result to what end? Only he knows. If the answer is "No, he never interacts with us." than I can give him a pass since he's made the choice to never ever interfere and like the prime directive in Star Trek will allow evil events to occur anyway.

Since most Christians would be the first to stand up and say "God has answered my prayers and I've seen his works in my life!" the real question then is "Did your belief in God inspire you to make certain choices in your life or is he actually actively participating in your life?" You can't have it both ways, you can't seriously sit there and expect us to believe the same God that led you to your husband is the same God that sat by and did nothing during the Holocaust, this is not a good God in that case or he didn't have jack to do with your marriage.

Really the most evil thing this imaginary God ever did was inspire this book of fairy tales and "laws" and then leave us to our own devices as to how we use this book of nonsense, all his name of course. If that isn't evil I don't know what is, and I define evil as any action or inaction that causes harm to others. If you need some kind of refined definition as to what causes harm you need to learn some empathy because it should be obvious.

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22-06-2016, 12:27 PM
RE: evil and God
(22-06-2016 09:38 AM)Aliza Wrote:  
(22-06-2016 09:32 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  No such thing as "free will". The Bible CLEARLY teaches against it.

Can you cite a few examples?

Watch out, he's gonna go all Calvinist on you.Tongue

But I too am interested in the answer to this question. I know Calvinism teaches "no free will", but where is the Biblical justification for that (and for Aliza's sake, I hope it's not solely in the New Testament)?

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22-06-2016, 12:31 PM
RE: evil and God
(22-06-2016 12:19 PM)godisinspiteofevil Wrote:  
(22-06-2016 11:52 AM)TheInquisition Wrote:  Remind us with suffering? That's so stupid, he could set up a big movie screen in the sky and explain it all to us without all of this pretense of hiding and behaving exactly like we would expect of something that doesn't exist.

Perhaps the greater good is not our happiness but knowledge of God. Since man is rebellious, God allows suffering to increase our dependency on Him. Therefore, the benefit of increased knowledge of God is far greater than suffering experienced.
First prove that space fairy that you were brainwashed to believe in exist. Then you can go into specifics.

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The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

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22-06-2016, 12:40 PM
RE: evil and God
(22-06-2016 12:19 PM)godisinspiteofevil Wrote:  
(22-06-2016 11:52 AM)TheInquisition Wrote:  Remind us with suffering? That's so stupid, he could set up a big movie screen in the sky and explain it all to us without all of this pretense of hiding and behaving exactly like we would expect of something that doesn't exist.

Perhaps the greater good is not our happiness but knowledge of God. Since man is rebellious, God allows suffering to increase our dependency on Him. Therefore, the benefit of increased knowledge of God is far greater than suffering experienced.

The supposed "knowledge" of God is what has gotten humans into trouble for many centuries now. If one group "knows" what God wants and it's different than what those other people "knows" God wants than what? We have all out war which causes suffering, pain and death. How is that a good thing? Either this God wants us to fight each other or he's simply doing nothing to do stop it, is that good a thing? I would say no.

If someone wanted to "increase" the knowledge of their God by going around setting up bombs and convincing others to put on suicide vests and detonating them in public places is that "knowledge" going to be greater than the suffering felt by all the bystanders who got blown up? Are the tears of their family and friends less than the tears of joy someone will experience when they find out this God is real?

This kind of thinking is pretty fucked up , the whole idea that God knows what he's doing when bad things happen but we have no fucking clue is like a game of chess being played out using us as pawns, we are sentient self aware beings capable of feeling tremendous pain both physically and emotionally, if this God thinks it's just fine to make us suffer because this will spread his good word than he's an evil fucked up asshole, end of story.

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22-06-2016, 12:50 PM
RE: evil and God
(22-06-2016 11:51 AM)godisinspiteofevil Wrote:  
(22-06-2016 11:38 AM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  Please explain this comment.


Are you saying that a child dying of terminal cancer is a punishment from god?
For the child's sins? or possibly the sins of someone else?

Is that what you are saying?

If someone who knows that alcohol consumption in large quantities negatively impacts them yet consume large quantities anyway. They get in their car, drive home, and on the way hit another car and those in the car die from this wreck. The people in the car who was hit by the drunk did nothing wrong yet suffered from the consequences of the drunk. Similarly, man's poor choice in disobeying God has consequential effects, at the core of man's nature which has become corrupt. Would this not provide a reasonable answer to the evil and suffering on our world? God has judged evil in Christ and offers redemption to all who by faith trust in the work of Christ.

Answer the question:

Are you saying that a child dying of terminal cancer is a punishment from god?
For the child's sins? or possibly the sins of someone else?

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22-06-2016, 12:55 PM
RE: evil and God
(22-06-2016 12:19 PM)godisinspiteofevil Wrote:  Perhaps the greater good is not our happiness but knowledge of God. Since man is rebellious, God allows suffering to increase our dependency on Him. Therefore, the benefit of increased knowledge of God is far greater than suffering experienced.

So god tortures little children so that we learn how much we need him?

If man is rebellious against god, and god created man, didn't god create man rebellious?

So man acts in a manner in which his omnipotent creator made him.
Said omnipotent creator knew in advance that man would act this way.
Said omnipotent creator tortures babies so that man knows god.

That is not an omnibenevolent god. That is fucking sadism incarnate.

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Freedom offers opportunity. Opportunity confers responsibility. Responsibility to use the freedom we enjoy wisely, honestly and humanely. ~ Noam Chomsky
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22-06-2016, 12:58 PM
RE: evil and God
(22-06-2016 12:40 PM)SitaSky Wrote:  
(22-06-2016 12:19 PM)godisinspiteofevil Wrote:  Perhaps the greater good is not our happiness but knowledge of God. Since man is rebellious, God allows suffering to increase our dependency on Him. Therefore, the benefit of increased knowledge of God is far greater than suffering experienced.

The supposed "knowledge" of God is what has gotten humans into trouble for many centuries now. If one group "knows" what God wants and it's different than what those other people "knows" God wants than what? We have all out war which causes suffering, pain and death. How is that a good thing? Either this God wants us to fight each other or he's simply doing nothing to do stop it, is that good a thing? I would say no.

If someone wanted to "increase" the knowledge of their God by going around setting up bombs and convincing others to put on suicide vests and detonating them in public places is that "knowledge" going to be greater than the suffering felt by all the bystanders who got blown up? Are the tears of their family and friends less than the tears of joy someone will experience when they find out this God is real?

This kind of thinking is pretty fucked up , the whole idea that God knows what he's doing when bad things happen but we have no fucking clue is like a game of chess being played out using us as pawns, we are sentient self aware beings capable of feeling tremendous pain both physically and emotionally, if this God thinks it's just fine to make us suffer because this will spread his good word than he's an evil fucked up asshole, end of story.

I could not agree with you more that the actions of sinful man are the result of the evil which exists in our world. The type of devastation you described is not one increasing dependence on God rather spreading the sin of hatred. Man is imperfect and in order to properly understand or "know" His ways will need a change...a Savior to bring about this change..Jesus Christ. Man's inability to accept he needs help should not be an indictment against God but reveals how bad man is.
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22-06-2016, 01:01 PM
RE: evil and God
(22-06-2016 12:55 PM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  
(22-06-2016 12:19 PM)godisinspiteofevil Wrote:  Perhaps the greater good is not our happiness but knowledge of God. Since man is rebellious, God allows suffering to increase our dependency on Him. Therefore, the benefit of increased knowledge of God is far greater than suffering experienced.

So god tortures little children so that we learn how much we need him?

If man is rebellious against god, and god created man, didn't god create man rebellious?

So man acts in a manner in which his omnipotent creator made him.
Said omnipotent creator knew in advance that man would act this way.
Said omnipotent creator tortures babies so that man knows god.

That is not an omnibenevolent god. That is fucking sadism incarnate.

God did not create man rebellious...this resulted from man's decision to disobey the creator. Everyone is responsible for their actions so when man made his choice, those actions corrupted the entire human race. Man needs a Savior to redeem him from this corruption.
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22-06-2016, 01:03 PM
RE: evil and God
(22-06-2016 11:51 AM)godisinspiteofevil Wrote:  Similarly, man's poor choice in disobeying God has consequential effects, at the core of man's nature which has become corrupt. Would this not provide a reasonable answer to the evil and suffering on our world?

No. Only to a pathetic, groveling, sheep. Only to someone too afraid to accept their own mortality.

What about earthquakes?
What about tsunami?
What about disease?

How are those the fault of man?


(22-06-2016 11:51 AM)godisinspiteofevil Wrote:  God has judged evil in Christ and offers redemption to all who by faith trust in the work of Christ.

And if your god is responsible for all this suffering, who will redeem your god?


Let's talk about that redemption.

According to your theology, god sacrificed himself to himself to use a loophole in the blood sacrifice rules that he set up in the first place.

Seriously, what the fuck is the matter with you???

How do you say this bullshit with a straight face?

Help for the living. Hope for the dead. ~ R.G. Ingersoll

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22-06-2016, 01:03 PM
RE: evil and God
(22-06-2016 12:31 PM)Szuchow Wrote:  
(22-06-2016 12:19 PM)godisinspiteofevil Wrote:  Perhaps the greater good is not our happiness but knowledge of God. Since man is rebellious, God allows suffering to increase our dependency on Him. Therefore, the benefit of increased knowledge of God is far greater than suffering experienced.
First prove that space fairy that you were brainwashed to believe in exist. Then you can go into specifics.

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Have you considered the cosmological argument for God's existence?
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